229. How to Retire Early and Live Your Best Life with Walli Miller

Hey, welcome back to the Average Joe Finances Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Cavaggioni, and today's guest is Walli Miller. So Walli, I am super excited to have you on the show. We had a great conversation pre recording, and I'm super excited to continue that on here. So welcome.

We finally had to hit the record button. Yes. I'm so excited to be here, Mike. Thank you for having me. I think it's going to be a really great conversation, a little bit different than probably what some of your listeners are used to, but I think it's definitely falls in line with what they want.

Yeah, it does. But, and at the same time, it will be a little bit different and that's what I'm excited about. So to start that off, let's go ahead and introduce you. So if you could just share a little bit about yourself, share your story. Tell my listeners who is Walli Miller.

Yeah once again, thank you for having me. So I am a first gen college graduate, daughter of an immigrant, born and raised in New York City, and I'm a first gen millionaire. I am also a financial coach. And I love guiding people. Through not only the math and the calculations, but also that money mindset that sometimes we get stuck at. So that's the trajectory of where things are right now, but that wasn't how it always started. Like I wasn't always good with money and I didn't always know all the things. And yeah, in my twenties, I pretty much. I thought I was good with money. I stayed out of credit card debt and that was my definition of being good with money. I was like, Oh, I don't have credit card debt. Like all the finance people, that's what they talked about. Get out of debt, get out of debt. And because I didn't have credit card debt, I thought I was good, not realizing I was missing the whole wealth building component. And yeah, that's when things changed for me.

That's amazing. Short and sweet, but to the point. And I don't know how I didn't notice this pre conversation and how this didn't come up before. I'm also from New York. I'm from Long Island. And I heard your accent too, right? I heard it a little bit and I just didn't even think anything of it. So at least, you understand when I'm talking, what I'm talking about when I say New York has the best pizza and bagels in the world, like hands down probably the best Chinese food too. You just can't beat it.

Not a debate. It's not a debate.

Yes. It's not, but people will probably get in the comments and start debating. But look, just want you guys to know it's already over. It was over before you started.

That's what makes the pizza and the bagels different.

Exactly. So you actually, funny story. When I was down in Pensacola, Florida for recruiting school, when I was in the Navy, they opened up a Manhattan pizza chain down there, familia, and When they opened it up, I was super excited. My wife and I, we were both, she's also from Long Island. We were down there staying on the base while I was going to school. And as soon as they opened up, we went right in, right? We got a piece. And that became our Friday thing. Every Friday while I was in school. We went and got a pizza and it literally tastes like the one that I had in Manhattan. And I said, Hey guys how are you making this so good? And they said, Oh, we actually have the water ship down from New York. And it's, that's actually how we do it. I'm like, no way. So it really is. It really is the water. So I just wanted to point that out there. It's pretty amazing anyway. Enough about New York and everything and all that it's, we can go down that rabbit hole all day. But now things are starting to make sense as I'm talking to you now that I know that you're from the city, actually what part of the city are you from?

So born and raised in the Bronx, but I live in Manhattan now. I'm in yeah. And lower Manhattan.

Okay. Right on. Okay. So during your intro, you had mentioned that you are first gen American, right? Cause your parents were immigrants and you're also a first gen college graduate. And first gen millionaire, right? So that's a lot of firsts that you're all packaged all together with what you've got going on. And I'm interested in hearing your story when it comes to how you actually got there, right? Because I'm second gen, right? My grandparents were immigrants and then my parents, of course were living here already. And. I got to see a couple of different sides of things. Like my grandparents had their own deli and that was a business that they were running. My father had his own business. He had a trucking business. And I always had this entrepreneur mindset because I, that's what I saw growing up. But I also saw the feast and famine side of it too, where it's one day we're eating like Kings the next day, it's like ramen noodles. I'm curious as to what your experience was with that growing up and then, of course, being that first gen college graduate what was that like for you to pursue that when you haven't had anybody else in your family to show you that way in the past?

Yeah, first of all, my mom is Puerto Rican, so she's not an immigrant, but she didn't graduate high school, right? My dad is an immigrant from Ecuador. We being born and raised in New York City, particularly growing up in the Bronx, it's the poorest borough. And so everybody was low income. Everybody was on the struggle bus, but like everybody like did what they needed to do. Like when we talk about like hustle culture, I mean that in the best possible way, like everyone knew how to make a dollar stretch and how to make money when they needed it. Everybody was like, selling, the holiday, traditional foods during the Christmas and Thanksgiving seasons. So it was just like people that spirit just was around everywhere, but my parents necessarily didn't have that. Like my dad, got paid under the table as they say, for most of his life, never had a 401k or anything like that. I am one of five kids. So my mom was a stay at home mom for most of my life. So there were like a lot of conversations between the two of them that I like overheard, but like money wasn't something that we really talked about. It wasn't something that, they sat down with me and taught me how to balance a checkbook. Like we didn't even have like bank accounts, they kept the money underneath the mattress. My dad, especially being an immigrant, didn't necessarily trust banks because of where he came from. So conversations around money really didn't happen. And I think for most of us, that's the case. Like it's very rare where you meet someone where I've met someone and they're like, Oh yes, my parents like taught me the ABCs and the one, two threes of money. Usually what we learn about money is. Just observed and learned indirectly and that was my experience as well. So we didn't really have conversations around money. Sometimes the lights would get shut off, sometimes, dinner was like white rice and a fried egg. Those were some of the experiences that we had, but it didn't take long to realize, like it didn't matter how hard you worked. Cause my dad works six days a week, 12 hours shift. And he was a very hard worker, so it wasn't necessarily of like how hard you work that wasn't the equivalent of what made you wealthy or what made you well off, but it was also like your connections and the people you knew and education and things like that. So I knew that for me, education was going to be something that I needed in order to change my circumstances. And that was really what I. Connected with and I really focused on, okay, how do I do this? And again, this is like growing up in a household where neither one of my parents graduated high school. They didn't go to college, obviously. So this was me just like looking over my shoulder and seeing what the person behind me and next to me were doing when it came to even navigating that experience of okay, what do you do after high school and how do you get there?

Yeah, absolutely love that and resonate with that as well. Especially when you were talking about how conversations around money just didn't happen. It was always like a very taboo thing. Now I, I remember hearing, my parents argue and stuff about money back in the day, but it wasn't really stuff that, that was said in front of us. It was more of ear hustling a little bit and to hear that. But yes, I totally get where you're coming from with that. Especially, when it comes to the whole hustle culture you were talking about in the Bronx, right? We might not have it as strong on Long Island But you know that hustle culture that you have just as a New Yorker in general is definitely something that's a contagious, right? Because that's something I actually want to give to my kids as well. Even though like I know that they're gonna be In a much better spot than I was, when they become an adult, I want to make sure that they know that they got to work hard to keep that going. That's not just going to be like a handout. I don't want them growing up with a silver spoon in their mouth or anything like that. I feel like that's something to like that hustle and that grind mentality that you have is something that you want to keep passing down from generation to generation. So yes, building generational wealth is great, but you also want to build that generational hustle culture, right? That you're going to pass down. So that's huge. Now, one of the things you had mentioned is that you knew that education was something that you needed to change your circumstances. So right away, the fact that you describe it like that, it shows me that you were very serious about changing. Your future and changing what opportunities were put in front of you. Because when you say education was something you needed to change your circumstances, that's what that speaks to me. You want to change your circumstances for not Oh, I want to go get a degree just to go get a degree or be the first one to get it. It's no, I want to get a degree to make sure that I can have a better life in the future. To make sure that I'm going to be able to get a job that's going to have the income that I don't have to worry about. The light's getting turned off. And I feel like little things like that, that we pull from our childhood, that you remember, those are things like, okay, I don't want this to happen in my household in the future. So it's one of the things that you always work for to get better at, you always want to try to give your family something better than what you had growing up. I definitely respect that. Now I want to get into. What you do now, cause like you're a financial coach. I also do financial coaching. So I really love to hear about what other coaches do. And I'd like to know when it comes to actual money, right? Because you got to the point where you got yourself in a very good spot. A lot of people have misconceptions about money. So I want to know for you, what can you tell me with the clients that you've worked with is the biggest misconception that you've found that people think when it comes to money.

Yeah, I think when people come to me specifically for financial coaching, they assume that it's all going to be talking about the numbers and the spreadsheets and the calculations. And of course, we do that. We look at the numbers. We understand 1 plus 1 equals 2, right? We understand what the numbers are and get to the bottom of it. But so much of it, has to do with our relationship with money. And I just want to go back to something when I talk about, it's not necessarily hustle culture, but it's like worth ethic, right? It's when I talk about education, that doesn't mean a degree right now. We're in, a place in time where you can listen, you can get a PhD in whatever subject you want by listening to the podcast, reading the books, blogs, YouTube channels. One of the things that I mean, yes, for me at the time, the only education that I knew was the traditional college, right? But today there's so much like listeners to your podcast, they've learned so many things and have been exposed to things they didn't even know existed. And so that's something that I am trying to really ingrain in like the next generation. It's yes, education and a degree can be helpful, but let me also expose you to this. Whole other side that you don't even have to wait until you graduate high school, right? Like you can start getting this education in middle school. And then, in a while, you're still in high school and just can really learn so many different things. And I think And genuity and creativity is also a component to like that hustle culture. Cause they think so many times millennials are for sure. Gen Z years are really like bucking the change on this, but it's not necessarily about grind until you're exhausted and tired and just feel burnt out. It's about how can I do what I need to do in a more creative way? Again, that ingenuity and also achieve the life that I want to live, right? And whatever that might mean for you. So right now when my clients, they come to me, yes, they think we're going to talk about the numbers and the calculations and we do that. But that mindset piece and that relationship with money is so important. That's why I went back to that using that word hustle, right? Because language and the words we use to describe. Our feelings, our interactions, our behavior, the exchange we have with money and how we earn it and also how we spend it is so critically important.

Walli, that's fantastic because the language, like the way that you bring that up. It's just, it's the way that you're putting it so that people are gonna sit here and understand right off the bat where you're coming from. That's one of the things I love to do about this podcast as well, right? I don't like to sit here and have, a conversation that is like too complicated or too technical or something that's gonna scare somebody that's just getting into this away. I want somebody to come to this podcast and listening and listen and say, Hey, you know what? I understand this. I'm not intimidated. I want to learn more. And, I'm going to go back and listen to some of these other episodes because, the way that these guys are having these conversations, it makes me feel comfortable, if somebody's putting out acronyms or things like that, I'll say, okay, Hey, what does that mean? Please explain that. Even though I know what it means, I want to make sure that no listener or nobody gets intimidated. And. Okay. And I do it that way because I feel like it's not that people wouldn't understand. It's just that right now, when somebody is coming here to get that information, they're coming here to learn right now, not sitting here and look things up. For me personally, I like to be a content sponge. I am constantly absorbing content all around me every day. Whether it's through books, YouTube videos, podcasts my kids are sick of podcasts because every time we get in the car, they're like, daddy, please put on music. We don't want to listen to any more podcasts, but. For me, like I'm always trying to learn, and that's what I love about what you described there. It doesn't mean go get your degree or anything like that. There's so many different ways you can learn today. And, I can tell you right now, I haven't finished my degree. I'm like three classes away and I've been three classes away, probably for 12 years. And I just haven't finished it. Maybe I will one of these days, just to say I did it, but. I haven't had the need to, and I've experienced a lot of success without having a college degree, so it's. It's a matter of where you get your education. It actually it doesn't matter where you get your education from. What matters is that you're always willing to learn.

That curiosity. Yeah. Attribute is so important. Get curious, ask a million questions. Why? And I think sometimes it can feel intimidating, right? Like obviously today we're talking about money and money is a very taboo topic. But if we're not curious with ourselves and with other people, we just stay in the dark, right? Yeah. And when I remember I would hear different podcasts talk about or books or things that I was reading people talk about wealth. And I didn't even connect with that word. Of course I like knew what that meant. I knew what the dictionary said, how people defined wealth or how it defined wealth, but I couldn't connect with that word. When I thought about wealth, I thought of an old man with gray hair, smoking a cigar, like in a velvet robe, it just wasn't like a word that I really connected with until I started to get curious about what would wealth look like for me?

I absolutely love that, and again, that goes back to the message of, simplicity, right? When you're putting a message out there to make it. So you're not intimidating anybody. There was something else you said, too, when we started this off and I absolutely love this because I've had. Other folks come on the show that were also financial coaches. And it's funny because I think we all look at it this way, but you were talking about the relationship with money. And I feel like a lot of people don't realize that you do have a relationship with your money, right? And no matter what you're purchasing, I don't care what it is. Even me as a real estate investor or investing in anything, whether I'm putting money into the stock market, whatever it is, I always get that uneasy When I write that check, or I wire the money, or I send it, because now it's gone. And I'm like, I had it. But now it's gone. I went and put it to work. It's like sending your, your kids turn 18 and you're sending them off to college or sending them off to wherever and you're just letting them go. And it's okay, go out into the world and make me proud. That's you're doing that with your money. And I feel like a lot of times people don't realize that you have this emotional attachment. So no matter what it is that you're putting your money into, there's always emotion involved. You go buy a new car. That's an emotional decision. You buy a home. It's an emotional decision. So can you touch on that a little bit and tell me like what your experiences have been with that when it comes to the emotions tied to money?

Oh, yeah, people can talk about money or debt, for example, and use weighted words, it's bad, it's good, leverage is good, like all of these different things. And really, it's neutral, right? Debt is neutral, money is neutral, but it's laden with emotions. And sometimes people will come and they'll say, I just I want to work with somebody. And I just don't ever want to have to think about money. And I say, I'm sorry, I'm not the financial coach for you. We're always going to think about money, but it's how we react that can improve, right? So from making something feel like a total crisis to an inconvenience, and I'll give you one example. I am remodeling my apartment here in the city and I worked with a designer to pick out some furniture and I said, okay let me, create a savings fund and I'll just. Wait until I have the money so I can pay it in cash. And so I did that and then it was time to go buy this couch and I hadn't bought a couch in years, probably a decade or so. And I didn't realize how expensive couches I've gotten. And I remember I kept putting excuses. I said it's October. Let me wait until after the snowy winter season. Wait, let me wait until after the holidays, before everybody like comes over. And I just kept putting all of these excuses about the couch, and January came, February, March, and in May, this May, the designer texted me, and she's. Hey, I would love to see photos. How did everything turn out? And guess what? Walli had not bought the couch. And I was like, why haven't I purchased this couch? And I started thinking, I said, is it that I don't want this couch anymore? Now, mind you, I had gone to the store like six times before to make sure that this was the right couch, but it's okay. If you want to change your mind, I said, no, did I really that couch? It's a nice couch. And really, when I got to the root of it, I had this thought in my head that I couldn't afford it, which was not true. I literally had an account separated for this couch, right? But that just goes to show that our relationship with money is always evolving, right? It's always changing. And we want to make sure that we have this awareness. A lot of times we don't, we're not in tune with the way we feel why we think what we think about money, right? What were some of the things that we learned about money? My parents didn't tell me buying expensive things is the waste of money. Like they never had that conversation with me, but there was like this sense don't, spend your money. You could buy things on the cheap or you can buy things less expensive. And I love a good coupon. Like I have no, no shame in like using a good deal and finding a good deal. But there was like this ingrained thought in me after many years. And I think I have a really good relationship with money that even today I had that thought. Of I can't afford the couch, and I had to capture that thought. I became aware that was the thought that I was thinking, and I had to capture and say, Do you believe that? Is that true? Where is the proof to that? And sometimes that's what we have to do when we're thinking about making financial decisions, whether it's a $5 decision or a $5,000 decision or $500,000 decision. It's about okay, understanding what the numbers say. And then also, checking in with ourselves, checking in with our minds, our heart, our emotions, and seeing how that also feels. Cause sometimes we will listen too much to our emotions and forget about the numbers. And then other times we focus too much on the numbers. And then forget about whether or not it's going to keep us up at night. And so I think it's really important that when we're trying to make financial decisions, and when we're thinking about our relationship with money, it's really about why is it that I believe what I believe about. X thing, right? Like when people say it's too expensive. Who told you it was too expensive? Why do you think it's too expensive? And so I know it sounds a little woo. And I will say that when I first started financial coaching, I'm a definitely a money nerd and a numbers nerd. And I love talking about that. But as I worked with more and more people, I just kept uncovering some of the same blocks. And it's if you don't get your mind your money is not going to be right.

Yeah, absolutely. Mindset is probably the biggest challenge that any coach I believe faces in any industry, whether you're a financial coach or you're a life coach, whatever it is, it's always that mindset that you have to help your clients like overcome and get past that hurdle. One of the things you were talking about, like it doesn't make a difference if it's$50, $500, $1,000, $5,000, $500, 000. It's just more zeros, and that's the way you got to look at it, it's just more zeros. And if you have the means to make it happen, then forget it. It's just more zeros. That's it. And once you can get to that point where you can let some of that stuff go and get over that emotional attachment. You're going to get a lot better. There's still going to be emotion. I don't care whether or not you say, Oh, all my purchases are emotionless and I'm completely, removed from that, that, no, that's a lie. Okay. If you were to get on a lie detector, that thing would be going off like crazy. But anyway I absolutely love that. So I wanted to ask you because you said when when it came to the couch, you had like your own account for it, right? So do you do sinking funds?

Yes, that's exactly what I did. So I had, I was like, I don't want to go into debt. And so I say specifically for my home renovation fund and that's what it was there for.

Can you explain what sinking funds are for the listeners?

Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of times what we'll do is we go on the vacation, put it on a credit card, come back and then be worried to open up our credit card transactions or open up the credit card statement, right? And we just deal with it later. And really to avoid that one of the ways to avoid or minimize that, right? Maybe even eliminate that is to yeah. Save little by little until you reach your goal. So if next year you're going to take your family on a vacation, maybe go visit Mike down in Hawaii, right? You know that you're going to go ahead and have that vacation. Think about, okay, this is the amount of money that we probably need and then divide it by the number of months or the number of years that it will take you to get there. So this could be done. For whether or not, again, you're making a $500 purchase, a $5,000 purchase, or if you're saving for your first home down payment, right? And so a sinking fund, literally, I say it's an encouragement suspense, because once you hit your goal, then you can feel confident in spending that money. Now, I will say some of my clients have It's finally safe for their first vacation, and then the mind drama comes, right? So if they were used to spending $3,000 on a vacation, and now they say $3,000 and they see that lump of, that sort of that sum of money now the mind drama happens of Oh, we can't spend$3,000 on a vacation when they used to spend the same amount of money. Or more because they were paying fees and interest.

And they were just swiping the card. There was no numbers in front of them.

There was no numbers in front of them. So there will be, this is again, back to where we started, which is like that relationship with money and how we interact with money and like building that healthier habit. So a sinking fund is essentially if you have a goal to, save 1, 000 Christmas is right around the corner of the holiday season is right around the corner, right? We're talking about November, December, January, some of the most expensive months. It's what's coming how can you make sure that you leave that time period you enter the new year with that The least amount of damage possible and one of that is by thinking okay How much money do I need to save every week or every paycheck or every month until the holiday season? So that I can have that money and be able to spend it. Guilt free because i've actually planned for it.

Yeah, I, Walli, I absolutely love that. And that's why I wanted to bring up sinking funds. Because when you described that, I was like, it sounds like sinking funds to me. If you go to my YouTube channel, like that's literally like my intro video is a TikTok that I did where I was explaining sinking funds to another version of myself. And because sinking funds for me has a very special place in my heart because it's actually how I paid off all my debt. Yes. I did the snowball method and everything, but when it came to Keeping everything else afloat, sinking funds is what made that happen, right? Like I had my own account for the pets and the vet. I had my own account for the car payment and car maintenance. I had my own account for the the mortgage or the rent, wherever we were living at the time. I had another account for, we had like fun money account where this is the money that we can use to spend on the month to go out to eat or to do something with the kids, go to the movies, whatever it is. And of course that one did not get enough, as much love as all the other accounts, because that was the, the tightening up and being frugal part of it. But at the same time. It's one of those things, like what you pointed out there, with the family, with the vacation and they, they spend$3,000 and all of a sudden they see that money there and it's oh wow, okay it's actually in our account. Do we really want to spend this? So sometimes it could be like a double edged sword, right? Because you're like, you saved for that vacation. You earned it. And now it's time to go execute that. But now you're having second thoughts. Cause you're like. I could put this money into something else or maybe I could dump it into more debt, or maybe I can invest it into something and, so you start asking those questions. One of the things that I look at is if you have a month, have that money in a specific account for that specific thing, that's what it's for. So go treat yourself. Don't beat yourself up about it, and. You earned it, right? I, one of the things I always love to talk about is celebrating small victories. If you pay off a credit card balance or anything like that, take a little bit of extra cash, go out to dinner, go celebrate, because if you sit there and you start paying all these things off and you find yourself. Not celebrating your wins and you're just back to back. Okay. I'm just going to pay this off. I'm going to pay this off. I'm going to pay this off. It starts to become very monotonous and very, not something you're having too much fun with. So if you go,

yeah, like a road to deprivation.

Yes, exactly. Don't deprive yourself.

Right? And there's a difference between, short term sacrifices. But also I, and I will say that frugal in your way to wealth is possible. 100%. I don't know about you, Mike, but I don't want to be frugal my way to wealth, right? I want to spend money on the things that I value unapologetically. And then the things that I don't really care about the things that are sucking my energy and sucking my time. Okay. And, that I don't even remember that I don't care about. I don't want to spend money on that. And so it's really picking out the things that you do value. And I will say, to your point of sometimes it can be a double edged sword. If you've saved for a specific goal and now you're like, Oh, should I release it? This really happens. And I will give my clients a homework assignment of coming back from that vacation with 0 in that account. Because sometimes it's like learning also how to spend money and this we can see even we were talking before this, the financial independence retiring early community, right? We get so focused on the accumulation phase, right? And then we want to go on the preservation phase and totally forget, the whole reason you're doing that is so that you can spend money right so that you can live the life that you want so you can have that life design. And so it is really important to make sure that I hate using the word balance because I don't think things can really 100 percent be balanced, but I think it's about valuing right make sure you are valuing. That you're spending money on the things that you're valuing and understand what it is that you value. And no one can determine that for you. Only you.

Yeah. Absolutely love that Walli, because it's all about, the decisions and choices that you make. And what's important to you, right? What you're going to use that money for, right? What is the important things? That, that you find valuable in your life. And that's why I want to ask you too. So as a coach I've seen a lot of folks that have some serious debt and they're like, Hey, my goal is to pay off all of all of my debt before I start investing, what are your thoughts on that? What if somebody is in debt, but they want to start investing while continuing to pay down their debt? What would you say to somebody that, that approach you like that? Because I feel like I know what your answer is going to be just based off the conversation we've been having and talking about what you value in life. But I'm curious, if you've actually ever had to deal with that at all too with any clients.

Yeah, I definitely have some people who have six figures of debt and they're like usually it's from student loans, right? So they have six figures of student loan debt and they're like, look, I'm gonna have that debt for a long time, but I wanna be wealth building. And they've made that decision to do both. But then I have some clients who are like, I don't know what's the best decision. And again, I think we have to go back to the why. Cause being debt free for the sake of being debt free is all cool, but is that going to keep you motivated? And is that going to let you live the life that you want to live? Not just today and tomorrow, but five years from now or 20 years from now. So I think, What's the math behind it? Sure. We can go over the math. So if you focus on paying debt first, this is what it looks like. And then you waited to invest. This is what that looks like. And of course we know the sooner you get started investing, the better it is. But I think, looking at what those numbers actually are, what would it look like? Okay. If I maybe had to pay off my debt a little slower, right? And do it a little slower, but I'm also building wealth on the other end. Can I do that? And what those numbers will look like and really understanding what is it that you want to accomplish, right? Is your goal to retire early? Is your goal to be financially independent? Is your goal to, be work optional, right? So really understanding, and sometimes clients don't know this. I think. Somewhere between when we're born and when we get to adulthood, like we are taught that dreaming is bad. And so even trying to figure out what a goal looks like can be a little nebulous, can be a little hard, right? People like, okay if I could just pay off this credit card debt, like I'll be happy with that. And I'm like, okay, great. What about if you could pay off that credit card debt and also have an emergency fund and also have a nice nest egg there? What would that feel like? People, if you've been stuck in that sort of if you've been stuck in that overwhelm and also avoidance feeling. It can be hard to even think that is possible, right? And, but that's what makes our job so wonderful, right? Is like showing people the possibility of their options, right? Of what their options look like.

Walli, absolutely love that because, and that's very refreshing to hear because there's a lot of times I've talked with other financial coaches, they're like, Oh no. Always got to pay off the debt first. I was going to pay off the debt first. Like they're very in that. That Dave Ramsey mode, right? And I get that to a point, right? If there's, if you have some really high interest credit card debt, definitely want to get rid of that ASAP, because even if you're investing in something that's giving you a 12 to even 15 percent return, you're still losing money at that point with the credit card debt. So yeah, so there's certain things, but then if you have a debt consolidation loan, it's got a lower interest rate and you're still wanting to invest. There's. Everyone has a different goal, right? And what matters is that, can you show them a way to reach their goals while still doing both? And if you can, then that, that would be the best route for you, because if that's what you want to do, but it all comes down to the person themselves they have to stand up and make that decision, right? As, as a coach, you can only sit here and say, Hey. This is a great option that might be best for you, but you're the one that has to make that decision. You're the one that has the toughest job of all, because you're the one that has to actually say, okay, this is what I'm going to do. And I feel like a lot of times people think no, my coach will tell me I'm good. I'm good. I just, I listened to what the coach says. You could listen to the coach all day, but you have to be the one taking the action and making the decision. Your coach is not there when you're out at target and you decide to go get, an extra Starbucks venti something, $30 drink, right? Your coach isn't there. Your coach isn't there when you decide you want to go get a new outfit, right? So it's a matter of. What are the decisions that you're making? One of the things that I also had to, and I want to bring this up to back to the sinking funds is we even had, we had sinking funds for clothing. So like we knew, like we need to spend however much on clothing each year. This is what we did. So we put that money to the side. So when we did have to go get a new outfit or something like that, boom, it was there or kids getting ready for school and stuff, money's there. I feel like there's so much. That you can do, but it all goes back to the person making the decision themselves.

Yeah, no, absolutely. You don't get your adulting card taken away from you.

I like that. I like that.

When you're working with a financial coach, right? I like, when people try to describe what is that? What do you really do when you're talking about like financial coaching? Is it like financial advising? What is it? And I say.

So actually can you tell me what is the difference between what you do as a financial coach and somebody who's a financial advisor?

Sure. So one of the things that I do not do is that I do not sell insurance and I do not I cannot sell investments or money management or anything like that. So I don't sell products. When you normally when you talk to a financial advisor, they tend to want to they tend to be a money management firm. And so they might sell you a couple of investment or insurance products. And That's cool and fine, but they're not going to give you like that educational component or help you understand why. And I think that with financial coaching, it's different than a financial educator or financial teacher. Cause I think there is an education component to it. I have a teacher's heart. So I love to introduce my clients to new concepts. So there is that financial literacy piece, which is, I don't know about you, Mike, but I don't know what New York City public school you went to, but I didn't have that class in school, right? We didn't learn.

Definitely did not have that class either.

Yeah. So we don't really learn about personal finances. So I think that financial literacy piece is really crucial, but the piece that's missing from there is the application and the implementation of the techniques. And the techniques and concepts that we're learning, right? And again, that money mindset, peace, understanding why we behave with money in the way that we do. Why is it that we interact with it in the way that we do? And I don't want to understate it's not just how you spend money, but also how you earn money. That's why when we were talking about hustle culture, right? I want to be careful with using that word because there's some people who think that the only way to do it is like burning themselves to the ground, forsaking relationships, family, ties, and that is a way to build wealth in one area. But then what about the wealth of your relationships, right?

You lose so much more.

Yeah. And so we just want to make sure that we're earning it and spending it in ways that really bring us joy, right? When we talk about value, it's what brings you joy. When you think about what you want your life to be. Yes, to look like, but also to feel like when you wake up in the morning, when you reflect on the last seven days, 30 days, one year's worth of time, what do you want to feel about your life? And money is again, very neutral. It's laden with emotion, but it's a tool that we can use to help design the life that we want. And so with, this is why this is where financial coaching and a financial coach really can help you understand that I have some clients who actually have financial advisors and we work together. So when they have questions about yeah, the financial advisor said this, I don't know why. What does that mean? We can talk about it. What does it make them feel like? Give them that education piece. And then they feel more confident, right? Rather than feeling I'll just not done. I was going to say diverge, but give them the opportunity, give them the hold of the range, right? Like you take them control. Yeah, you don't want to give them all of the control. Nobody's going to care about your money. Nobody's going to care about the life that you're living more than you, but you have to understand why you're making the decisions with your money and choosing the funds or buying the product or whatever the case might be. Why are you doing that? And does that align with the vision you have for your life?

Yeah, I love that. That's the question you have to ask yourself. Why? Why are you doing what you're doing? And then at the same time, I really like what you pointed out too, with the hustle culture piece. Like it's not about, always hustling and burning yourself out. There has to be some type of balance in there, right? You need to look at your, the entire picture of your life. Money's just a piece of that. There's still so much more with relationships, spirituality, like so many different things that make you who you are. So don't lose sight of this other side because you're just focused on the money over here. And I stress that because I've been there before. Like I've Been to the point where I was just hustle hustle, and just working and grinding. And then realize that, Oh man, I forgot, Hey, my family's still over here. They still need me too. And I'm just, I'm bringing that up from personal experience. It's super important to make sure that you balance it out the best way that you possibly can. And remember why you're doing, sorry, why you're doing been. Absolutely amazing. And now I'd like to take this into something that I call the final round. It's where I'm going to ask you the same four questions I ask everybody that comes on the show and it gives us a, just a good idea of how you are under a little bit of pressure, which I think we all see and already know that you're going to crush this thing. So if you're ready to go, we'll get that party started.

Let's go.

All right, let's do this. All right. So Walli, first question of the final round, what's the biggest mistake you've ever made when it comes to your finances or business life?

Okay, one of the biggest mistakes that I made was I was in the process of buying a triplex and this was a case where it was it was a short sale and we wanted to purchase. It was like a triplex. My family, most of my family now live in Florida. And so I was like, okay, I will. Rent two places out and then the other long term rentals and the other one I'll have as a short term rental So when i'm visiting florida, I can be there and we kept going back and forth with the numbers And of course, I just wanted to say tell me how much you want and finally, I just said, you know after counter offers and things like that. I just gave up because I just didn't know what they wanted Come to find out the I think they wanted like an additional $12,000 and it sold for an additional $12,000 and that sucked because that rental property ended up selling they divided it and they ended up selling for Six times more than what I would have purchased it for. And it was like, Oh my goodness, I should have just hung in there.

Yeah. You know what they say, right? The best time to buy real estate was 20 years ago. The second best time is today. So every time you're in a situation like that, it's yeah. So yeah, I definitely feel that it hurts, but I appreciate your transparency there and sharing that with us. Okay. Walli, the next question you're gonna see, these all kind of tie into each other is what is something that you've learned that you wish you knew when you first got started?

The journey is going to go way faster than you could even imagine. I think I. Even though I knew what the numbers would say and I, even though I knew what was possible, I think I still worried and, just, it's not worth spending your life's energy worrying, right? And this really ties into the power of investments and then the power of compounding interest, which many people have talked about on this show already, but it's really, the journey is going to go by so much faster. So you have to enjoy the present.

Yeah, I love that. I think that's the first time I've gotten an answer like that. When I ask people like what they've learned and something that they, I, that they wish that they knew when they first started out and that, be present in the moment. That is, that's powerful. I really appreciate that. All right, Walli. Next question. Do you have any tips or tricks that you would recommend to someone that is just getting started out today?

All right. Start with $10, start with $25. Don't think that you need to start the investment journey. And we haven't even talked about what specific type of investments, like this could be real estate. This could be business. This could be entrepreneurship. This could be stock investments, right? But today, more than ever, It's so much easier. The barrier to entry is so much lower. And sometimes we feel like I don't have X amount of dollars. We'll start with what you have. Really get intentional about, again, just like you separate money for food and transportation and going out and concerts and sporting events, have a line item. That's your opportunity fund. That's your investment fund for building wealth.

Absolutely love that. Absolutely love that. All right, Walli. All great recommendations and, I really appreciate the fact that we didn't get to go into some of that stuff, but I appreciate that you brought that up because that is super important to know that you don't need to start off just dumping all your money into investments. It could be little things, just little, just get started, right? Just. What you're comfortable with, right? And it helps you get into that mindset of starting to save and invest and let your money earn more money for you, right? You're employing those dollars to make more dollars for you. So I think that's super important and I really appreciate that. Okay. Final question of the final round, and this is just an opinion thing but do you have a favorite business investing or real estate related book or podcast or both?

Okay, so one of the first podcasts that I listened to that really gave me my PhD in like in Walli's finances was a podcast called Afford Anything by a woman named Paula Pan. The podcast is still going strong today. It's a fantastic podcast. I love it. I still listen to it. But the book that changed my life and really helped me to understand. And we talked about this before I have real estate, I'm a business owner and I'm a stock investor, and I love. All three of them for different reasons, and they all have challenges for different reasons. But I have to say, I prefer stock investing, not trading. I'm not talking about day trading. I'm talking about long term investing. And the book that really helped make this simple for me was called the book The Simple Path to Wealth by J. L. Collins. It's a short read. It's one of the books that I've given out. The most, I just, the first year that I read this, everybody got one for Christmas and their birthdays. Cause it was just a book that transformed my life. But the simple path to wealth by J. L. Collins is a fantastic book.

All right. Fantastic recommendations. Thank you so much for that. Actually, that's the second time somebody's recommended afford anything. So that's, I definitely need to add that to my podcast. Listen to list. And then also the books, the simple the simple path to wealth. I've heard that recommended before too. That's actually already on my list, but I think I'm going to bump it up now, especially after the way you just described it. Definitely appreciate those recommendations. Now that is it for the final round, Walli, but I do have another question I want to ask you. And this is probably going to be the most important question I ask you throughout this entire interview because people were listening and they said, man, she gets it. She gets me. I need to get better with my relationship with money. I want to know more. So where can people find more information about you? Do you have a website you could share with us, social media, anything like that? And of course, where can people find your coaching services?

Yeah, so you can go to my website, all of my socials, a little bit about me, a little bit about what I offer, everything is there, which is financiallythriving.com, and I'm most active on Instagram, so I'm financially underscore thriving there, and I share tips, videos, things like that on Instagram, but financially thriving on almost any platform.

All right. Absolutely. Love that. Walli. Thank you so much. I'll make sure that those notes are in the, those links are in the show notes. So it's easy for people to just copy and paste or click away that way, they could find you right away. They'll, the only thing I ask is that if you're driving right now, please don't do that. Wait till you're in a safe place. Stay safe people. Absolutely. Walli, I want to thank you again so much for taking your time today to join me on the podcast, Have a great conversation and share. Your wisdom with our listeners. It was absolutely amazing. And I had a great time. So thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. I really appreciated it.

Absolutely. And hey, I also wanna thank all of my listeners for joining me and our special guest, Walli Miller, on the Average Joe Finances Podcast. Go leave us a five star review and tell us what you liked about today's episode with Walli Aloha from Hawaii and from New York, and have a great rest of your day.