97. The Reason You're Broke with Ida Azefor Eyong

Hey, how's it going everybody. Welcome back to the average Joe finances podcast. I'm your host, Mike, Cavaggioni, and today's guest. And I had a lot of fun trying to pronounce her name before we started. So I'm going to, I'm going to get this right though. Okay. It's Ida Azefor Eyong I'm super excited to have you on the show. Thanks for joining me today.

It's such an honor to be here. Thanks for having me, Mike.

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it's funny cause we, we connected through, through a podcast in group and you know, it was, it was great to just connect with somebody who's almost talking about the same exact stuff that I'm talking about, but you're doing it just a little further north than me up in, up in Canada. Well, actually I guess it's more like. East way east, since I'm in Hawaii now, but yeah, it's just, it's really exciting to have somebody, on the show that that does something very similar to me, especially with financial coaching. And, I'm just, I'm just super excited to talk with you. So if you could just share a little bit about yourself and your story, how, how did this all get started for you when you, when you moved to Canada, what made you want to start your own business?

So when I moved to Canada, that was in 2010, I came to this country because I wasn't accountant back home in Cameroon. And I was working in a multinational firm in a multinational company, and I was the account then there. So when I was coming here, plus I came on at a steelworker program. When I was coming here in my mind, I was going to come and just crush it and be an accountant in one of the big four firms. Right. But then I got here and. It was like, oh, this is not what I signed up for. I got here. And the first thing is, even though you have that con that, accounting experience, the like you don't have Canadian experience, so you cannot get into an accounting job as you thought you could. So for me, it was getting to this place and realizing that those dreams that I had in my mind, It wouldn't realize it wouldn't play out exactly as high as I had planned, I started working in the call center and it was miserable for me coming in there with my very strong African accent at the time, and trying to learn the way things are done here, the way people talk here on the everything else. And working in a call center at the time, it was like, for me, it was like culture. And I had always wanted to get back into accounting. And well, eventually, eventually within the same first year that I was here, I eventually got into an accounting job, but I accepted a pay card in order to get into that job. But for me, it was just to get in there and get the Canadian experience. So when I got in there, I started learning all the things that I could learn on the spot. And a few years down the road, I had my first child and I went on mat leave. And then when I came back, I had my, I had to go again on Monday. If you're not here in Canada, you go on mat leave. 12 months. So within the three-year period, I need to paid 12 months off. Right? So within the three-year period, I had been away for like two years. And when I came back, the person that I had trained to take over what I was doing, got so good at what she was doing, that it was like my, my spot wasn't there anymore. And I had to, my options were like, come back part-time and take this, whatever is available here. And then we're going to see what happens down the road. Or get a severance fee and move on. And what I kind of weighed my options. I really wanted to keep doing that, but I was like, you know what? I want to be able to control my schedule. I want to be able to do things a little bit differently just because now I'm a mom and I'm going to need a lot of time off. You know, personal time, which doesn't quite work well when you're doing a nine to five at the time. So I decided instead of coming back to the company and instead of coming back to the company and being, a subordinate to the person that I trained, I would rather be on my own and do the same thing. And it turned out that this company that I used to work for, they became my first class. Because I decided to go on my own. And they became my first client. Well, I started that company in 2014, which was four years after, after I got here. And I pretty much did the same thing that I was doing at the company at the time I started doing that on my own. I kind of feel it, the spot because the company I was working at was doing accounting and bookkeeping services for small businesses as well. And I had gone ahead and I learned a new software, which a lot of people I think is, is QuickBooks online. I'm not sure if you know that, but at the time, a lot of people were beginning to get into this new system. So I learned it on my own and I was able to start helping a lot of small businesses with that. But fast forward, fast forward to now, I actually have gone back to doing a nine to five, because again, coming into a new country, you go into all the financial mistakes that everybody makes you go into credit cards. You go into car loans, you go into every single thing and you get yourself in a position where it's like, you have to do something extra in order to get yourself to a place where you want to be. So that's like a brief overview of me coming here back to.

Okay. Yeah, right on that's that's super exciting. You know, it's, it's kind of crazy because you, you found yourself in a new country and, you had to learn essentially, you almost learn everything over again because it's a new country, different cultures. People talk a different way. Right? So you, you got to that call center and you said basically it was like a, a nightmare for you. Right. And you had to get your Canadian Canadian experience up. Right. Because, you know, you had a thick accent. And so there was probably like a small language barrier there. Right. Especially working in a call center. So that had to be a pretty, I guess, Mentally taxing on you, I would say. Right. But you know, as you fast forward and you, you got to the point where you go on maternity leave, you know, you've got somebody that's trained up th this, this was in the next part of the job, right? So this wasn't the call center anymore. This

is the accounting firm that I was counting job.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so you train this person up, you go on maternity, leave, you come back and essentially your job's not there. Right. It is, but it's like, part-time now. And you're working for the person that you train. Like that's, that's gotta be like, almost like a slap in the face. Maybe, probably the downside to, the wonderful, maternity leave program that most Canadian companies give. Right is that you might not, you might come back and somebody else like took your job. Essentially

technically illegal, but I didn't want to fight that. I was just like, you know what? I, I, I got a lot going, I have things that I want to do, and I'm not just going to sit here and fight for a position that's like, you're not wanted in essentially. So it's was like,

And it just, it creates like a more like, like a hostile environment. Right. Because if they already like telling you, oh, well, we'll let you go. You know, you can take a severance, you know, do you really want to be there anymore at that point? Is that yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. So that's, that's just really interesting side of your story. And I just, I really appreciate that and I really appreciate you sharing that because it's, it was a lot of life-changing experiences in a very short period of time for you, right. Moving to a new country. Having your first child? Well actually, so moving to a new country, starting a new career, moving to a new job after that, having your first child coming back, losing that job, it's just a lot going on, but you didn't just give up, you kept moving on and you started your own business and had that same company come to be your client, which is absolutely awesome. So yeah. With your background and what you do like, so, you know, you're, you're an accountant, you're also a financial coach. I wanna, I want to kind of go down this road with you here. Right? Cause it's, especially, this is kind of in the wheelhouse of what we talk about on this podcast. So I want to ask you what you would say is the reason why financial literacy is important.

Financial literacy is very important because unfortunately it's something that is not taught in schools, unfortunately. And we do have, I was listening to your talk to Michael Gilmore and he actually talked about the fact that now we do have financial inclusion, but the education part is not there. And no matter how much money you have, if you're not financially literate, you're never going to get to your goal. Which is at the end of the day, everybody wants to be happy. You want to be able to do what you want to do for as long as you want to do it. Right. And that to me is what financial independence is all about. You getting to that point in your life, where you're able to do what you want to do for as long as you want to do it with the people you want to do it with. If you're not able to, I mean, at the end of the day, when you're doing that, That's what gives you fulfillment? That's what gives you a sense of purpose? And so for you to be able to do that, you need to be able to understand how money works. You need to be able to put yourself in a position where you're not stressed out about money so that you can go ahead and do those things.

Yeah, no, I love that. Spot on because you know, financial literacy, it's not about getting rich and being super wealthy and having the flashy car and everything like that. It's about what do you, what do you get back from it? By being financially literate, you learn how to better manage your finances. And by being able to better manage your finances, there's a lot of things that you get back from that one of them being time. And you get that time back because everything costs money, everything costs money, your time costs money. If you're spending your time doing something that doesn't bring value to yourself or those around you. Then essentially you're wasting that time. Right. But at the same time and, and, and when I say value, I, it doesn't necessarily have to be monetary, right. If I'm hanging out with my family and I'm enjoying that time with my family, that brings value. If you ask me to me and to my family, that's important, right. If I'm just sitting around and scrolling on Tik TOK for a couple hours, that really doesn't bring value, right. If I'm scrolling through TikTok and I'm watching content of like, like business content and other entrepreneurs and stuff. And they're small little snippets that can kind of bring value. But most of the time, you know, those short videos are just hooks to try to get you into, into something bigger. So I do, I do love. Like online content and stuff like that. I am a social media sponge, but at the same time, you still gotta be really careful with that. So I just wanted to touch on that a little bit. Financial literacy, you know, it's, it's more of a, having a better understanding of freedom I would say. Right? Because once you understand that you can understand what it's, what it's truly like to be free and do stuff that you enjoy now. Getting into financial literacy. There's a lot of people, again, like you said, it's not, it wasn't taught in school. It's just not something that's typically taught in the public or private school sector. And yeah. That's where, you know, as adults, as people move on in life, they they've got to get their financial literacy from somewhere. And, you know, a lot of people will find it on social media, which is great. But a lot of people will do other things. They'll send it for different programs and things like, things like that. And myself also being a coach, I help other people get there. So I want to ask you. Because you got yourself into financial coaching, right? So you, you were already an accountant as it was for like a, you know, bigger firms and international company, in Cameroon, and then coming over to Canada and doing it here, there as well. What made you want to kind of step outside of that and be, you know, a financial coach to help individuals instead,

the thing is I realized that this pipe, my background, this pipe being an accountant. There were things that I didn't know, which seemed to be obvious things that I should know, but I didn't know. So I asked myself like, if with my background, I don't know those things. What about the people who don't even have the kind of background that I do? And what about the people who don't even know where to look? And what about the people who would actually look and cannot tell the difference between good financial advice and bad financial advice? So for me, it was actually just being, putting myself in a position where I want to be the person who is bringing this information to people like me, people who for example, came from another country and they're starting fresh in this side of the world where you get access to money, you get access to credit, you get access to things that you don't necessarily. Have not necessarily been a part of your past or getting access to, for example, credit where you could spend money, you don't have, which again goes back to that inclusion part of it. I want it to be the person who, or my purpose is really just to help people understand how many actually works so that they can avoid the kind of mistakes that we make just by having access to funds. Half like just by having access to funds that it's not ours, you know, through the credit system and through all of that. There's just for me wanting to be the person stepping in the gap to help my community, essentially.

Yeah. Yeah. It just, it's just a good way to give back to others. And you know, so I'm sitting here taking notes as, as you're talking. Right. And you know, one of the things you mentioned is that, you know, for some people it's not, it's, it's about, they don't know where to look. Right. And for those that do know where to look a lot of times, you know, they can't tell the difference, whether it's good financial advice or poor financial advice. And the other thing you talked about too, is just like the actual access to money and credit and things like that. A lot of people don't understand how to get that. And, you know, just it's, it's funny, like, after doing this for a little while, like some of the things that, that I talk about on my show, I'm like, yeah, You know, how, how do you not know about this stuff? You know, this is pretty basic stuff. And then I think back to, you know, when I was younger and I'm like, well, I didn't really know this stuff when I was their age either, you know, and, and being able to, especially being able to help younger people understand this, you can really help people set up their future, to, to be in a much better place. I think it's super important. The other thing that you said too was, was about that inclusion, right? That financial inclusion, that this, this is stuff that anybody can really have access to. But a lot of times you'll see in certain communities that it's just not there because the education piece isn't there. So by you doing what you're doing, you're, you're providing that gateway, that access. To this, to this financial literacy, to this wealth of knowledge, this wealth of knowledge to build wealth, which is, which is really awesome. So, I want to say that I, I definitely appreciate that. And, and your reason for doing it, your why is like the. The best thing that I could, you know, even think of when it comes to why you'd want to do something like this, you want to be that bridge and build that gateway because it's something that you took personal on yourself because you were in that same position, not too long ago. And even with the accounting background information that you already had. Basic things that you just didn't understand. And you had said that you, you had made like some of like the basic financial mistakes when you first came over. Right. So I I'd like to touch on that a little bit. Like, what is it that when you first moved to Canada, like what kind of financial mistakes did you make that, you know, that you really learned from and grew from?

The first one being. Credit cards. I mean, I used to be a person who would say don't use a credit card at all, but I have kind of modified that to say, understand what a credit card is or understand how it works before you use it. For me getting into this country, it was people around me telling me, Hey, you need to build a credit score, which is good advice, but nobody tells you how to do it. but, a good way to do that. So the simple advice was I got was go to the bank, request a credit card and make sure you use it. And that's what I started doing. And every time they get like the first time that. Put up because here in Canada, the bank is just going to put something in your profile to tell you you're eligible for credit, credit limit increase. Do you want it? And again, being a new person, I never knew what that was. So I would ask the people around me, Hey, the bank is telling me I'm eligible for an increase. Should I take it? And they would say, yes, always accept a credit limit. Increase. That's what they said. So that's what I did. I started off with a thousand dollar credit card. It was a secured credit card because again, coming over here, I had no credit history, right. So I had to put down a thousand dollars in order for the bank to give me a thousand dollars credit. So I put it down and then they gave me the card. I think it was like after a year that the funds were released because now they were able to see that I have been using the money and paying it off, but

built up that credit, worthiness to them.

Yes, exactly. But it took me from the time I got here, which was 2010 between then, and like 2015, I had wracked up about more than $20,000 in credit cards. Yeah, seriously, just by accepting the credit limit increase and then expanding my lifestyle too, because you know, when the funds are there, it's like, oh, you have money, but you don't.

Yeah. Yeah. You, you let you let that lifestyle creep creep up on

you. Exactly, exactly. So I would have that. And then there's a sale and your friends are gonna say, Hey, this is a sale. And of course you have a credit card, just go use it. And we kept doing that. I kept doing that. And between then, and 2015, I had wrapped up, I said, modern $20,000 in credit card debt. And I had more than five credit cards. This one would give you, it's like $9,000 in credit card. This is another one they're going to give you is like $15,000 at that. That's the limit. Right? And so long as you could pay back the minimum, which is what everybody sees pay the minimum, pay the minimum. So you can stay, you can, you would not default. You will not be in default. That's what I was doing and that's the advice everybody's getting. So I wrapped that up and then, so that was one, one mistake I made. Right. But the other one too, was the car. My first car, I actually bought it. Cash was like a $3,000 card is because I needed a car to go around, but I had the $3,000 and I paid for it and the cost started acting up and everything. So my friends just said, Hey, just go to the dealership and get a new car. I'm like, but I don't have the money. I decide it doesn't matter. Just go get it. So I actually went ahead and I bought a new car and I think I had like $8,000 in cash, which I said, I want to put eight thousand dollars towards this car. And then the rest can be on financing. And the dealership was saying, no, we don't want your money. Just take the car. We don't want your money. So that's me. I took the car on, I had $8,000 I could use for anything else. But now that's how the debt started going up. And then a few months later, well, a few years later when the cost that acting up again, I said I wanted a newer car because I'm starting to spend a lot of money at the mechanics. So few years down the road, I went again to the dealership and I got now I said, I just want it to trade this car and get a newer one. Just so I don't have to spend so much time at the mechanics, but guess what? I walked out of there with a brand new car, because the payments were slightly lower or about the same as what my payments on the other car was. But what I didn't pay attention to was the fact that the payments were lower because it was spread over seven years instead of three or five years as the previous one was. So that was me getting into more debt. But do you think I learned that, that at that time? No. No few years down the road. When I was getting my, when I had my third kid, we tried to fit the car seats in the car and it didn't fit properly. So guess what? We went to the dealership and traded in the car for another new one. So by the time 2019 came around, we had more than $60,000 in bad debt. Between credit cards and cars, cars are just kind of rolled into each other and just going up and going up. And for me, that was like, I mean, I was living my best life, right. I say, I say this to my clients. I was living my best life on board money. But getting to that point, it's like, you're in now at this place where you can stop working because if. How are you going to make your minimum payments? You can't stop. I mean, you have to go to work. You can't call and see you don't have freedom anymore because you are in such a big mess. That, I mean, if you stop working with you, if you pull back or anything and you have to be extra nice to everybody around you, because if not, if you get fired, then. You know, so it puts me, or it put us in that kind of position where it's like, you are living paycheck to paycheck and you are constantly stressed because you don't know, you're afraid of whatever could happen next, just because you don't have that peace of mind. So in 2019, I came across Dave Ramsey. I think you mentioned him in one of your episodes as well. I came across Dave Ramsey and I saw his information. I was like, oh my God, how come? I never knew the stuff. He was one of the first people whose, whose messages resonated with me, made a lot of sense. It was hard to hear, but it was the truth. So from taking his, from getting, getting in contact with the people in his community and all of that, which said, okay, you know what enough is enough? 2019 is a year that we're going to start changing our lives. And so we made up our minds at that time between my husband and I, we met up our minds at that time to say, okay, enough is enough. We're going to change our lives today. We're going to start now. And so we just got intense and we started paying off the debt and saying no to things and saying no to the kids. And. 360 changing everything about ourselves.

Yeah. You know, that change is something that is just, you know, not, not only did you change yourself, but you change the trajectory of your life. Right. And a lot of people find Dave Ramsey and, and that's where that, that light bulb hits and switches for them. As a matter of fact, for me as well, when I was in severe debt, I had about $28,000 in credit card debt. I had other small personal loans, a car loan and everything else. I don't even add all that up. I don't even know what it was. It was some astronomical number. And, you know, we got to the point where we're like, we really need to figure this out. And we started listening to Dave Ramsey and, you know, started following his baby steps. Right. And we did steps one through three to completely get out of debt. And then after that, I dunno if I like this anymore, because one through three is good, but, the four through seven, I, I'm not sure, but you know, we paid off all of our consumer debt and it got us to a much better place. Credit score was phenomenal. And, we were able to buy, our second home, when we moved to Hawaii, with, with a lot of money in the bank, because we built up our, our emergency funds and also our savings account. But I think the key thing is. Is, you have to flip that switch and it's it's discipline. You have to discipline yourself. And there was something that you said there it's a key word that you said, and that key word was no. Right. You had to know when to say no. And, and I know it's hard, right? You said you had to say no to yourself. You had to say no to your husband. You had to say no to your kids. There's just things that you have to say no to, to continue to move on. Right. And, and to be able to get to that point where you're going to pay off all that debt, which, which is phenomenal. So a keyword here, guys that listed. Guys and gals is no gotta learn when to say no. Right. So nobody wants to hear that. Yeah. Nobody, nobody. That's that's that is a lot of people's least favorite word I know for my children. It's definitely their least favorite word that's for sure. But sometimes you gotta know when to say no. Right? You have to know when to step back and say, ah, this is probably not the best thing to do. And, you know, you, you got yourself to the point where you learn those lessons and you learn them the hard way. Like most people do, right. You learned it by racking up debt. And, you know, it's, it's the same lessons that a lot of people learn, but you know, there's folks out there now there's different education programs. There's different podcasts you can listen to, you know, to, to learn. Not do that early enough to where you, you know, you can actually save a lot of people, a lot of time, money and stress, but also for the folks that did rack that up to show them that there is a way out, there is a way to beat this in a way to get past all that. So speaking of that, who are the people that, you know, for you being a financial coach, who are the people that you want to help most and why.

So the people that I want to help most are people whose journeys are like mine. People who cause for the most part, if you were born here, if you were, if you've been here from the time you were small, you kind of know what credit is. You kind of know you've heard about it. You've seen people being broke, you're seen things. But a lot of people like me who came to this country at a point in their lives when they were like adults. And you're at a point in your life where like, I can do whatever I want. Right. Those are the people I really want to help the most because this information is, is out there. But because you have probably believed a certain narrative about yourself from where you came from the Southern narratives, you've believed about yourself and you start to see, okay. No, yes, it's good that it happens for you, but he can't happen for me. Because I wasn't born here or because I talk like this or because I do this or because I do that, you know, you start to set those limitations for yourself because you think the people who are preaching, this message are not like you. So I know that math is math one plus one is two. It doesn't matter the color of your skin. It doesn't matter how you talk. One plus one is two. So if you can simply believe that this things can happen to you. Sometimes it's hard to believe that, but if you see somebody was just like you, who is preaching this message and who is telling you, yes, you can do it. Maybe it can resonate with you a little bit more. So the people I want to help them. Most of the people who are just like me, who came here with no knowledge of how the system works at all and who are very likely going to make the same mistakes. If they keep listening just to the people that are around them, those are the people that want to help the most.

Oh, that's yeah, that's wonderful. And what a great message, right? Because. Again, I could sit here and preach this stuff all day. Right. But like you're saying, you know, I wasn't an immigrant. I didn't come here from another country. I didn't have to face some of the adversities that other people have to face. Right. Where you have that other side of that story. And you could say the same thing I'm saying, but it'll resonate to them. Coming from you because you went through that, you you're the same, right? You, you went through the same exact thing and people can identify with that a little bit better coming from someone who's been in the same shoes as them in the past. Sure. I have my debt story. Right. But I didn't immigrate from west Africa, you know, to a country in Northern America to try to figure out and start a new life. You did. Right. So other people that are going through that similar situation might be like, ah, I don't know about that average Joe finances guy. He's just, you know, another, another white guy preaching financial independence and freedom. Right. But you have that same story as well, but you also have it from the perspective of somebody that step the same footsteps in that same journey. And I think. Absolutely amazing because they, they get to identify themselves within you. Right. And I think that's, that's super important. That's why we get to the whole financial inclusion piece, right. That it doesn't just have to be for a specific community or race or anything like it. Anybody can be involved in this. Anybody can do it. And it's just a matter of making sure that, you know, it's that comfort level, right? Who's who's the person preaching this message to me. Is it somebody that I can't really identify with? Or is it somebody that like, wow, that's what I'm going through now. And she did it that same way. Maybe I should listen to her message and, you know, and that's, that's where you get that breakthrough and you get people that are going to respond and say, wow, you know, and it's, life-changing right. You're gonna, you're gonna be able to change people's lives by doing this. So, speaking of, so you, you have a, a finance podcast as well, right? And by doing this. You know, and by having your, target community, like who you're trying to get this message out to what is the actual goal of the podcast itself?

So the, the, the goal of the podcast is it's education. It's mainly education. And I call it the reason you're broke. And a lot of people are some people like it. And some people don't like it because. People don't want to be told the truth, which is like, you're broke. I was broke and I'm able to see it right now because I have commodities there. Right. So it's kind of in your face, the reason you're broke, but at the same time, it's not just telling you why you're broke, but it's telling you what you can do about it. Using my story and using people who, I mean, I bring people from all the community. I bring people who, anybody who's willing to share their story, just so, okay. You hearing it from me and I'm like you, but this guy too, who's not even, like you were saying the same thing that I am seeing, so, well, maybe there's something in there. So yeah. So it's really education. And I don't talk about investing there because I'm not there yet. I mean, there as in, yes, I'm investing, but I can't advise people on what to do because I haven't made all the mistakes that there are to me. Right. But I could talk about the things I have done, how to pay off your credit card. What is a RSP, which to you guys is like the 401k and the Roth IRA. I explain all of those to people because essentially that's my journey. And if it's my journey, it is the journey of every person who came like me. Who was like me who came here and as I get to different stages in my life, my goal is to kind of continue to bring that message to the podcast so that people can also learn and improve themselves. So it's really about education gets to me. I believe that if you educate people, I give them the tools. So that they can make decisions for themselves. Don't tell me to go and buy a stock. Tell me why I need to buy it. Don't tell me to go and invest in real estate. Tell me why I should invest in real estate so I can make that decision for myself. I think a lot of people just go with information. Like we can do this and do that, but why, so it's it's really about education so I can empower people from the ground up so they can know that, Hey, this is out there. This is why. It is out there and maybe it's good for me. So maybe I'm going to take that into consideration.

Yeah. Yeah. And like I told you before, in previous chats, like on Facebook messenger and stuff like that, I absolutely love the name of your podcast. I think it's great. And yeah, I mean, I guess maybe, you know, some people could get offended by because it's like, Ooh, I don't need somebody told me I'm broke, you know, but it's, it's real, it's realistic. And, and the name says, you know, there's, there's a lot to. Right. I, I like the name of my podcast too. Right. Average Joe finances. Right. We're here to show you that, like, you know, the average Joe or Jane can do this. Right. But at the same time, like with yours, like what I love about it is like the reason you're broke. Well, there are many reasons and your show explains that. And sometimes people need that kind of like that slap into reality to, to understand. So I like the realness behind it and, and, you know, There's a lot to a name and a, I think, I think it's very clever. I love it. So I just, I just wanted to throw that out there. Okay. So, another question I have, right? So a lot of what, what a lot of people struggle with. And I know like for, for my wife and I, like it was, we had to figure out like coming together, you know, it's one thing when you're telling your story, Right. And you're explaining it to an individual, but to those that are married or have a partner or something like that, you know, sometimes it's, it's tough if they're not, rowing the same way that you are. Right. And so how do you get yourself on the same page with your spouse or significant other or partner? When it comes to money.

Good question. I think the challenge from what's for most people is to try to tell their spouse, this is what we're going to do without allowing them to get to the same place as you, because by the time you're bringing information to you as past to say, Hey, we're going to pay off credit cards. You have had information, or you have had a transformation in you that. They haven't had you're at a different place then than they are. So it's important that even though you have those goals in your head of, we gotta pay off our credit cards now, so that we can be financially independent. It's important that you get them to the same place as you. I had to buy like little cues here and there because let's be real. Nobody wants to be told what to do, not to talk of an adult. Nobody wants to be told what to do, but there are ways that you could talk to them to bring them in. So that at the end of the day, they're actually the ones making that decision. And it's like, it's their decision that it was yours all along. So for me, the way it worked with my spouse was. I mean, I came across Dave Ramsey and his message really resonated with me. And so what I started doing was I started throwing a few things, had him, so I was like, Hey, I found this guy, check out this podcast. Or I found this message and check this out. Or, Hey, I was listening to a podcast today and this people talked about how much debt they were in and they paid it off. And now they're doing this and they're doing that. So you start to get that excitement in them so that they can start to dream and they can start to say, Hey, I would like that for myself. What can we do? Or, I mean, you would see a cue. You would see that you would see that they are receptive based on how you approach this, but you have to be very practical about how you were putting. Yeah, allowing them to dream. And then when you see how receptive they are, then of course throw it in there. You know what let's do this, or, Hey, I put together, debt snowball, for example, if we do what they did, we will be out of debt in X amount of years. Maybe we should give this a try and then. Let it be and let them talk about it. If they don't follow through on that day, you know what, bring it up again. When you guys are in a good mood and just say, Hey, do you think about what I showed you the other day? If you're still not receptive, don't worry about it. Talk about another story you ha you heard that's like inspiring to you. You just need to keep pushing it there because at the end of the day, you, you need to think about what it is you want and be patient about it. You want to get out of debt. So don't get mad at him because he's not following right now. If you get mad at him because it's not following through right now, then it's like emotions start going all over the place, pushing him away. It start pushing him away. But your whole goal is about bringing him towards you to see with you. So just be tactical about it, I would say, and just allow the person to dream, allow the person to get to the same place where you are at, and then you guys can make this decision going forward.

Yeah, I that's. That's perfect. And you know, it's, it's like planting a seed, right? You got to plant that seed and you got to keep watering it and watering it and watering it until it sprouts once it sprouts, then, you know, okay. Hey, we're growing here. We've got growth. But like you said, too, if you, if you get to the point where. I guess, bring more emotions into it or you, you pester or Badger, it's almost like taking your finger and pushing that seed further down in the dirt, giving it so much more, length for it to have to grow before it sprouts. Right. So I think that's a, that's super important. I really liked that message, for sure. So, okay. Yes. Get your, get your partner on the same page. That is huge. You don't want to just jump into it. I can tell you I've made that mistake myself. My wife and I got on the same page when it came to, getting out of debt. Right. And we did that. And then, you know, we wanted to buy our home in Hawaii. We did that and I said, okay, now we're in this good place. I want to start investing in real estate. And she's like, I don't know about that. And, I'm kinda like forcing the hand and she's getting further and further away. So then I kind of just left it alone. And then I said, I started listening to this and watching this, what do you think about this? And I started showing her different things, right. So it's really funny that you said that. Cause I was like, this is exactly what I did to like get my wife into real estate investing with me. Right. And you know, so I showed her some stuff from bigger pockets and then I had some friends of mine who were investing in real estate. So I said, Hey, let's go have lunch with them. And just kind of chat about it a little bit and literally. That conversation that we had at lunch, she was like, okay, let's do it. And then we went and bought a duplex. So it was, you know, it was, it was pretty cool. But you know, it's, it's not so much about the persistence. It's about, like you said, being tactful about it. Right. You don't want to just, just keep badgering, somebody, you have to find the right moments to bring up that topic of conversation. Right. That's that's the important thing. So. Okay. So definitely get on the same page as your spouse. Don't just, don't just go and do something and ask for forgiveness later. It might wind up being even more financially stressful. If you, if you do it that way. So, okay. So now as a, as a finance coach, what, what kind of services do you offer?

So, I do one-on-one coaching and I also do group coaching. But, but what I've found is that a lot of people are very shy in group settings. So it's mainly one-on-one coaching that I do, actually, what I started not too long ago, it's just like a couple of weeks now. I decided to put together a group of people who wanted to receive free coaching, but here's the catch it's gotta be live. And the whole purpose is to get people talking about money because in my community, money is like a taboo topic. Money is like, You know, when you have beliefs rooted in you Sudden beliefs about something, and you're trying to get people to a certain level, but you need to change that belief. The underlying belief first. Yes. So for me, I put together a group of people who want to receive one-on-one coaching, but it's going to be live so that other people can get inspired by their story and their message and see that, Hey, that person is just like, And this lady has helped them. I want to go get on that thing with them. So let's free coaching, which I do on Instagram live. One-on-one but that's, one-on-one coaching, which I, I do like on a zoom call like this, and then there's group coaching, which I do. So it could be like a group of people who belong to a certain association. See, it's an alumni or just a group of friends who like, okay, we want to get on this thing together. It's just like, what's it called? People wanting to like a buddy system, you know, accountability partners. So they could say, okay, 10 of us together. We want to do this thing together. So you coach us. So. That group coaching as well. But on the other side of it, I also do like personal taxes and corporate taxes, which is on the accounting side of things. So it's kind of bringing together my two worlds of my personal journey in debt, plus my background in accounting and bringing all of that together.

Yeah, that's perfect. I love it. You know, and. And I liked the, the whole, what you're doing for the, for the free coaching side to too, right. You're like, Hey, I'll do it for free with you, but we're going to do it live on Instagram. But it gets, it gets people talking, right. It gets people thinking about it, especially in, in the target community that you're trying to get. Right. And, it, it might seem trivial, but by doing little things like that, you're bringing so much value to that community, and financial literacy itself. So that is absolutely phenomenal. And it's, you know, I look at everything that you're doing and, and the value that you provide and it's just, you know, I, I kind of get taken back because you really are trying to change people's lives, you know, and that's one of the things that I enjoy about coaching as well, is that you can actually help build, help somebody build themselves up to get to the point where they can just be on their own and they're going to be okay and go out there and crush it. And you're, you're really. Focusing on making like huge changes in communities, not just one-on-one which you do do that. Right. But you you're affecting change on a large scale and, and, you know, people might not think of it that way. You might not even think of it that way, but when you, if you take a step back and take a look at what you're doing, I mean, it's absolutely phenomenal work so. Just awesome. Thank you for, for what you do for, you know, for your community and for everyone else that you're helping. I mean, that's just really good stuff, Ida. I really, I genuinely mean that.

Thank you. Yeah. See, I'm blushing.

That's all good. Hey, you know, look, I'm not, I'm not just trying to hype you up or anything cause I, I really do mean that, like I think, I think that's important. There's unfortunately, there's not enough of that, in, in the world today. But one of the things that I love about being in the personal finance community, but also even as a real estate investor as well is I see so many people that are willing to give back and just help other people. I would say 97% of the people I talked to in these communities are always willing to share something or share story or share some success and help other people out. You know, I'm not saying that they they'll hand walk people through things and give handouts. No, it's not that, but it's like, Hey, they'll take the time to have a conversation with you and tell you how they did something or, or what they did to get there. And that just brings so much value that, that I think it gets underestimated a lot. So I just, I just wanted to touch on that a little.

I find that too. And strangely enough, right before, before having that mindset shift myself, I used to think that, which is exactly what the community thinks. Maybe they're not, it's not everybody was things that way, but the vast majority of people think that the wealthy are evil and because of them having more, this group of people have less because those group has more, but that's not true. It's not. And to be able to get people to change that mindset is really hard. Yeah. But that's the place where I'm like, okay, if you can have that mindset shift to know that. One person having more doesn't mean you get to have less. If you can have that mindset shift, then you stop seeing yourself as a victim and know that you can create the life that you want. So, yeah, to be able to get the message across, that's really what I'm trying to do. And I'm hoping that I'm going to reach as many people as are willing to listen.

Yeah. That's and that's super important. It's, you have to know your audience as well. Right. And you have to make sure that you're putting out the message that that will resonate. Right. That's super important yeah. Oh, I love it. I love it. So keep doing what you're doing. It's absolutely. Okay, so I have a set of questions I'd like to ask you. It's it's something I started asking everybody that I bring on the show. It's just four questions. But I think it's, it's, it's pretty impactful because it's, it's going to touch into a lot of, big thing, I guess, deep root things. Right. So the first question I want to ask you is what's the biggest mistake you've ever made

credit card. Not about using credit cards because I still use them. But right now I paid off like right away. Right. I wouldn't swipe my credit card. If I don't have the money to pay it, I literally do a budget. I'm like, okay, I'm going to spend $200 in the shop. For example, I haven't. And I would go to the shop and I'd say, okay, swipe credit card, come back home, pay it off right away. So. My biggest mistake was listening to people who said only pay the minimum on your credit cards. Cause that's what started me on the downward journey into getting into debt.

Yeah, right on. All right. Cool. Awesome. Yeah, that, that is a, that is a pretty big mistake. And I think that's one that a lot of people make. It's definitely one that I made myself as well, many, many, many times, so. Okay, cool. So next question. What is something that you've learned that you wish you knew when you first started this journey?

Something I have learned that I wish I knew when I first started this journey. Compound interest that if you start investing, when, what, $300 from about the age of 18, and put that every single month at about 8% or so, you're going to be a millionaire by the time you were, what age is that? 50. Even before that. Yeah, I guess I never knew that. Right. So. Living your best life on whatever money you make and just say, okay, the government is going to take care of me by the time I'm ready to retire, but it doesn't work that way.

Yeah, that that is huge. Compound interest is a, there's a reason why it's called the eighth wonder of the world, right? Yeah, definitely. Definitely a good lesson learned there. Awesome. All right. Next question. Do you have any tips or tricks that you would recommend to somebody who's just getting started? So let's say somebody who is in debt right now, and they want to get themselves to a point where they can, pay off all this debt. What would you recommend to them?

The first thing would be distance yourself from your credit card. Not because credit cards are bad, but because you need to be able to not depend on it so that you can eventually start using it without it being like a thing you depend on. So for example, if you get yourself to a point where, you know, you don't need your credit card psychologically. Something changes psychologically because it forces you to spend money you have, and it forces you to not get into unhealthy competition. Like you want to get things that everybody else has. So you're going to go use the money or you're going to, you know, you're just going to spend anyhow, just because. You know, so I'm going to tell people, first of all, distance yourself from your credit card. And the second thing is put aside at least at least 10% of your income at least, ideally more, but at the, at the minimum, that's something I learned from the richest man in Babylon. At least 10% of your income aside.

Yeah, no, that's great. That's great. As a matter of fact, the very next question is, I'm glad you mentioned that, right. But the very next question is, do you have a favorite business investing or real estate related book or podcast or both?

Book would be Rich Dad Poor Dad that, the very first one, Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad Poor Dad, that would be my favorite one because. He points out the fact that being school school, the esentially it's it's, it's designed to make you do a nine to five, but a nine to five is never going to get you where you want to go. So it's about having that shift to know that, okay, just having a PhD or an MBA or whatever it is, you've gone to school to study. That's not all that's going to get you where you want to go. You need lots of other things. Which are not taught in school. So you need to self-educate, you need to constantly constantly be learning and improving yourself on other things, which are not related to school, but you still getting education.

Yeah, that's fantastic. That's a, it's a great book by the way, we call it the purple Bible, right? Yeah. What about podcasts? Do you have a favorite podcasts you listened to?

My favorite podcast is probably Tony Robbins. Yes, it's Tony Robbins. Cause he, he doesn't only talk about money. I mean, he talks a lot about money, but not only that he talks a lot about self-empowerment. He talks a lot about the psychology and he talks about, I mean, he talks about everything, but all of it is geared towards empowering you to make you a better person.

Yeah. And that's key. Like, cause it's not, it's not just about money, right? You need to, you know, as an individual, make yourself better. And one of the things I like to focus on too, is it's not just my financial health, but my mental health and my physical health as well. I think that's all, you know, those are the three components you need to have a happy life, right? Your mental health, your physical health and your financial health. And part of the mental health too is also spiritual health right? So that's those kind of go hand in hand. But you have to have all that, right. If you don't have all three it's it's, it makes it very difficult. And it's, I'm not saying that the financial part is that like, money will buy you happiness. Cause it really does. But what money does get you as time. Right? And it gets you that time back. That can be significant. Yes. Towards your, towards the other things. Right? Cause if you get your time back, you have more time to do stuff, to take care of your physical health. You have more time to take care of your mental health. So, it kind of all starts with that finance piece right? That's one of the most important parts. And I'm not saying that money has to be the be all end all, but it should be a very significant thing that you can see. When you're trying to figure out your life.

Because unfortunately, unfortunately in, I think it's, it's the society, I guess it depends on who you listen to, but you will often hear money is the root of all evil, but that's not true. It's not true, but it's something that people would use to justify whatever lack they have. Cause it's like, yeah, money is the root of all evil or money. It's not going to buy you happiness, but it's going to get you back time, which then you can afford to do other things, which make you happy. So in a sense, it kind of not directly. It's really up there.

Yeah. That's exactly. That's exactly where I was going with that. So, awesome Ida. So, okay. We we've had an amazing conversation. I absolutely, I was absolutely thrilled to talk with you today. This has been so fun and, you know, just to really just open up and get back to the to the basics of why financial literacy is important and what you're doing, you know, with, with your coaching services and your podcast, and just helping out, you know, your community in general is just super commendable. I abs I absolutely mean that. You're doing amazing things, Ida. So I just want to say again, thank you for that now for the people that are listening to the show right now, they're probably like, Hey, you know, I want to know more about Ida and what she's doing. So where can they find that information about you? Do you have a website you could share with us, say social media and of course your podcast, because we all want to know why we're broke.

So my website is, it's just my name, Idaazefor.com. So ID. A Z E F O r.com those days. I'm very, very, I'm much more on Instagram. So on Instagram and Facebook, I do have the same name. So it's IdaAzefor coach. Ida as fr.financial coaching. That's where you're going to find me both on Instagram and on Facebook. And I'm very responsive to all my messages. And then the podcast. It's the reason you're broke and it's available on all major platforms. So apple, Google, Spotify, and a lot of other places. So pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts, you will find the reason you are broke.

Right on. Thank you so much for sharing that. And so for those of you that are listening, that's where you can go find her. I'll make sure we have all those links in the show notes below to make it easy for you. And if you're driving, don't sit here and try to go visit those sites right now. Wait till you get to your destination and go copy it down for later, but it's going to be in the show notes. So it's easy to find. And yeah, Ida, this has been an absolute pleasure. I really enjoyed this conversation. I love that we connected and I, I would love to stay connected with you. Cause this has just been really fun and, I'm truly humbled that you took the time to come on my show and, and have this chat with me and our audience today. So thanks again.

Thank you so much, Mike, for having me, I want to go as far as I can, to get my message to as many people in my community as possible. So thank you for offering me the opportunity to do so on your platform.

Absolutely, of course. And you are always welcome here. Anytime. Just reach out and you can come on the show again cause. This is, this is the type of conversation I absolutely love having. So, all right, we're going to get out of here and sign off, but, again, Ida, thank you again so much for coming on and chatting with us today and Aloha from Hawaii . Ida Azefor Eyong: In Montreal au revoir..