209. The Power of the Appraisal in Your Own Hands with M.J. Jackson

Hey, Welcome back to the Average Joe Finances podcast.I'm your host Mike Cavaggioni, and today's guest is Mark MJ Jackson.So MJ, super excited to have you on the show.I love your background.I can see you are a sincere athlete and I love what you're doing, man.So thank you for joining me today.Oh, it's an absolute pleasure, Mike.Thank you for the invitation.It's a joy to be here to care, share with your audience without a doubt.Yeah, absolutely.Hey MJ, I wanna start things off the same way I start every podcast episode off.And I know a little bit about you because we were talking a little bit off camera or not recording, right?I've got your background here, but I would like for you to describe yourself and share your story with our audience here so we can get a better picture of who MJ is.So if you could tell us a little bit about yourself and tell us who is MJ?Yeah.Again, Mike, thanks so much.It's really a joy and they say the best introduction is the one that you get to do yourself.I love it.Absolutely.Yeah, at times I say, I'm just a punk kid from net tune New Jersey.It is interesting when I met my wife,I told her I was from Neptune and she says, yeah, men are from Mars,women for Venus, you're from Neptune.And so that's, one of those things that you'll never forget when you're having an in that new courting type thing.But we've been married for a long time.We have five children in a blended family.Although I don't look it, I have five grandchildren, which is a lot of fun.Wow.And we live in the Salt Lake City market area.We've been here for about four years now, but was raised on the east coast.Have lived in Louisiana, lived in Georgia, have lived in Colorado as well.And matter of fact, this summer we spent a couple months in Montana with a role that my wife is doing.But my background with the, grew up.Went to high school, went to college, got a job in hospitality.That, that's a fancy way of saying I work for Church's Chicken and it took getting robbed at gunpoint three times before I realized.Not only was the importance of my wife and children more important than staying in that role, I was worth more than staying in that role.The New Orleans was, it's a challenging place to engage or raise a family and it can be in the eighties and the nineties it was tough.And but it took.Literally three times I realized,look, you can do something different.So I went back to school got into corporate.Did you know in transportation management that was really enjoyable.After a couple years of, the maximum increase being 4%, I still was in a situation where I realized that I was worth more and really didn't want someone dictating my value through my income.And so was buying a first home.Was that the closing table saw this 20page legal document that had information about the property I was buying and the comparable properties in the neighborhood.Was doing some of the ratios for the square footage.Adjustments in my head, cuz I had recently only finished my accounting degree.Talking about the property I was buying and the comparables.There were pictures of the properties on the paper.And at that time in the mid nineties,that's when digital cameras had just come out and I'm a gadget guy I didn't need a reason to buy a digital camera.I needed an excuse and I was looking at it.And then.There you go.I know, right?A lot of the information about the property I was buying, it was all spread through all those 20 pages.And so that told me it was good database management software.So accounting gadget, good software.It was all appealing to me.So I turned to my wife.I said, I have no idea.What this is, but I know I could do it.And my realtor said it was a real estate appraisal.And that's what the bank uses to justify the value to be lending you to purchase utilizing a mortgage to purchase this home.And so that stuck in the back of my head for a couple more years while I continued my corporate job, with a measure of safety and security.But then I just said, look I gotta do something different.I need to be able to control my own worth.And Went to appraisal school,became an appraiser, took a buyout from our corporate job and wound up doing appraisals for different mortgage companies.Turned into, wound up doing appraisals for investors and then realizing that,look, they were making way more than I was doing the appraisal, but yet it was the appraisal and that dynamic of guiding them from evaluation first approach as to what deal they should or should not do that.Being focused on the investors began investing, but also built my appraisal company at the same time little silly nugget.Mike.Average appraisal firm is 1.2 people.That's it.And so my appraisal firm, really engaging with people, being a servant leader.Started with six appraisers, grew that to28 appraisers, three licensed appraisers.I became certified residential and in2004 I sold that appraisal firm, took the seed some of the seed money from that,and then built in investor costs because investors wanted to be able to look at deals the same way I did without having to be limited to just engaging with me.They wanted a platform they could go look at.Automatically.And from that over time, we've built out what is the VIP community Virtual investing Pros with inside investor comps, where we come together, engage do deals in any number of different market areas without having to be physically resident in that market area.We said we invest anywhere from anywhere and utilizing and knowing the best acquisition value.And after repair value for a piece of real estate helps you know that you're gonna make a profit each and every time you engage in a deal.Whether you're an active investor,wholesaling selling to rehab or selling to flippers, or if you are a practice professional with good capital in a self-directed IRA or cash or a family limited partnership, and you wanna deploy those resources that you've got over time and earn 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 percent by just deploying that capital, being the bank.We're able to guide people in that direction as well.Now, a lot of times in the bi p plus community those synergies happen between the members, the active investors versus the passive income investors.So it's a real great place for folks to come together, engage, really know.In some cases if they're doing some multifamily and they get a ppm, a.Private placement memorandum with a prospectus.And the offering documents say that based on these type of capital improvements from the gps that the LPs can expect, pardon me, the general partners and the limited partners can have certain expectations,returns and those members in the community that will get those type of deals.Cuz again, they're looking to deploy capital and we'll get into the market area dynamics, what's happening.If in fact these improvements are done,do the demographics of the renters, would they actually pay more or would they not,will you be able to increase those rents?Those type of d those type of situations that all go back to taking a valuation,first approach to real estate?I absolutely love doing.It allows me to be in situation where I'm right in my niche.I've done all types of different deals from an investing perspective,but no matter what type of deal it is, if it's a pre foreclosure subject to a short sale a probate.At some point, you've gotta come back and say, how much should I pay for this asset and what should I expect to be able to remarket it for?That's the beauty of having that background as a real estate appraiser and what we offer to all the members within the investor comps community.It's been more than I could have ever dreamed of.Not to mention just for myself and our family, but to be a server to so many others guiding their efforts so they can really be the heroes in their lives, Mike.MJ.I love that because, there's so many real estate investors out there, and every time I talk to them I always tell people this too this community.I would say 97% of the people that I've met are just genuine, really good people that just want to give back.And I can tell that you're definitely part of that 97% as well.There's a very small percentage of people that are out there that will take advantage of others, and that's what you hear about most of the time because that's what gets in the news.Unfortunately.Then you have people like you that are doing some really good stuff that are helping investors step their game up.And this is the stuff you don't hear about too much.That's why I'm glad that I can have a platform where you can come out here and tell people what you're doing and share what you're doing.And I love how you have this valuation first mentality, right?Because, I literally just had another interview earlier today.I was talking with somebody, we were talking about house hacking, right?And one of the things we were talking about is the properties that he was buying and then the properties that he helps his clients buy is, they're always looking for it's great if it cash flows, but you also wanna get that sweet spot where there's always gonna be a little bit of meat on the bone as well.And he compared it to the stock market, right?Where you said, look you buy some stocks in the stock market, you're always looking for that long term.Oh, I've got room for this to grow and then you have stocks where you get dividends and they don't really grow too much, but you get paid right?And then you look at real estate and it's the best of both worlds, right?Because you're getting that dividend straight up front.You're getting paid rents, right?And then on top of that, it, the value over time just goes up significantly.And it's just one of these ways that you could hedge against inflation.Looking at your background,especially in accounting, right?And then you decided to switch over to real estate when you saw that first appraisal report come back and you're like, what the heck is this?That is very refreshing, right?Because it shows that, somebody that's coming from a more analytical point of view when it comes to the numbers,looking at real estate and saying, okay,this actually makes the most sense.Yeah.So I definitely appreciate your approach there.And then some of the things you talked about as well is this is probably something that you don't hear too many people talk about on the multifamily side.Is the fact that you provide these prospectus reports, right?And the, this data that is significant for general partners to show to their limited partners and say, Hey, look,here's the potential of this property and this is why we want you to invest with us.And that is so important, right?And having something like that for a team of GPS is something that you really can't put a number on right there that there's a lot of value there.And I also wanna say MJ, that I appreciate the fact that, you talked about GPS at first and LPs, and then you said what they were right?Because that's one of the things that I love about.This show in particular is, I wanna make sure we're explaining things to people at a level that, this could be someone's first episode, they've never listened to anything about real estate before or investing before, and that they could feel comfortable listening to this because somebody explained it to them in a way that they'll understand and not just a bunch of, real estate jargon.For people that have been doing this for years.So absolutely love that you did that as well.Okay.Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now cuz this is about you and what you're doing.So I wanna talk about, what it is that investor comps does, right?So you started your own.Appraisal company back in the day.And like you said, it's normally about 1.2 people.You had over 28 appraisers so right away you could see that you were very successful there people wanted to work with you.Now how do you go from that to what gave you the idea to create like this platform?To make it for easier for real estate investors to say, okay, I can go here to figure out what these, what the valuation of these properties are gonna look like.What, what made you decide to make a platform instead of just sticking with the regular appraisals?Yeah, it was really two things.So Mike, the, what we did, especially for real estate investors was we repry a means for them to be able to not just have someone go out.Find three comps, three listings they say the value's 250, come back at 250.What we did with my skillset, and again,this is purely divine intervention,when I would go out and do a project.I would come back to the investor and I said, listen,what's your overall goal here?And you might say I'm gonna look at holding it as a long-term rental, or I'm going to modify the floor plan so and so forth.Or I'm actually going to renovate it and flip it.Based on what they shared, there's some different dynamics that may or may not make that deal work.Let's just stay with the idea they want to fix and flip it and they're gonna redo renovations.If the property has a measure,say it's an existing house, maybe from the 1950s it's had an add on the back, something like that.There may be too much to overcome in terms of the functional obsolescence of that floor plan, even if he tries to go do the renovation on it.You get these add-ons where you go through the kitchen, go to a bathroom to get to a bedroom, and based on the plumbing and or the support structures for.The load bearing walls, it just may not work, or you're gonna have to put so much money into it.Now you're decreasing the margin that you can make on the return.So I would just say, look, this is,this obsolescence in the floor plan is going to impact your profitability.Let's just say different scenario,let's say there isn't any functional obsolescence, but the property sitting in the back of a cul-de-sac to some vacant land.What we would also do is look and see what are the new building permits that are going in place, and if there's gonna be a wealth of either active or coming new construction based on the timeframe to get that property to market again, there may be too much competition for this older home, even renovated as compared to the new construction that's being in place in the long run.A lot of the investors that we engaged with where I started in the local Atlanta market, they really got tied to us cuz we would actually help them make more money on the deals that they did not do along with the ones they were successful with, and that was the real engagement that brought investor comps forward because once I got to transition where I wasn't gonna be physically appraising anymore, they had to rely on the regular appraisers that would just go get three comps and not really engage them, or they were having to have realtor relationships that would just give them access to the mls, which isn't always easy.Investor comps, even though subscription based gave them two things.One, the type of data that we as appraisers use in all the major market areas across the country, and a support desk where they could ask questions,load of information about the property.We can do a quick overview, especially with the advent of google Maps had come out then, so now we can actually see online, but then it's gotten even better when the, whereas street view came into place cuz obviously we always had to drive to assets, but now we can actually see them and of course Google Maps had just gotten better and better.So it was literally the request of the clients that we were serving that created the impetus for investor comps.We were originally investor comps online.It was.Back when you had to say that you were on the web and stuff like that.And then we did like Federal Express, we just dropped down to just being investor comps.But it was really based on meeting a need in the marketplace that created investor comps.We were able to respond to that with a really great data partner black Knight,that we can serve so many different market areas, including Hawaii, Alaska,the territories of Guam and Puerto Rico with real estate valuation data.It's been an absolute joy to meet a need and be able to evolve in that into doing what we would call this virtual real estate investing and creating that community as well.So that's how investor comps and the role of it became just a real need in space in the marketplace and continues to be going strong even today.MJ.I love that because, you clearly saw a problem, right?Or a need that, that other real estate investors, needed to get in front of,or still like a problem set that they need to get in front of and said,Hey, I've got a solution for that.Here's all the data that you need to figure it out.And the thing is too on, on top of it like you said before, yeah, you can go get a regular appraisal done.Yeah.You could build that relationship with a realtor and get access to the mls, but do you know what kind of city projects are coming up that might affect the valuation in the area and things like that?No, but you can get that kind of data on investor comps, and that's amazing.It makes me think about like where I purchased my home at, out here in Hawaii.There's been a lot of things recently very close to where I live at that have opened up that.Are increasing the value of my home significantly.We just opened up the world's largest wave pool in the same neighborhood right in my neighborhood.So it's insane's the wave pool in Hawaii.Really?Yeah.It's actually a, it's the world's longest I'm sorry, like single wave for surfing.Okay.So it's like a outdoor like a surfing wave pool, right?Yeah.And literally right next to the ocean.Weird, but yeah.So it's but it's neat.So they opened this, and right here, and this was something that I didn't, I never foreseen, like I didn't know that this was coming.And if I did, I would've been like, okay, like I know that this is still definitely probably the best area for me to buy right now.So it's great when you can have some of that information, some of that data that you know of what are some up and coming things that are happening that can affect the value of this neighborhood.Like the one that you pointed out is huge MJ, like when you're talking about, okay,if we're gonna purchase this house that was built 50, 60, 70 years ago, right?Versus hey, these empty lots behind it,they're gonna do a brand new development.The cost.Ratio for renovating this property versus buying a brand new property can be significant.So it's really huge that you understand that before you go into buying a certain asset, because if you do go buy that property, the value might not go up as much as you thought it was going to because brand new homes just got built right around the block.So I think that's huge that,especially that you point that out.Now, are there anything like Specific,like market specific that you feel that needs to be pointed out?Cuz I know each real estate market is different, right?Oh yeah.So there's places where people invest for cashflow.There's places where people invest for appreciation, and then there's places where people invest for both.So do you find that you cover all 50 states or do you cover like investor heavy markets?Yeah, so investor comp serves all the major market areas across the country,including the two territories as well.Alaska and Hawaii.I frame it this way we are very fortunate to have a number of invest international clients from Italy,Germany, France, Scotland, Canada, israel.That are investing in the US.They're investing in the US Exactly.And the question they ask is this,how is the US real estate market?And I always say, there isn't a US real estate market.Exactly.It's all it's all localized.And so because of my sister company based out of Atlanta, but also known as America's Discount Home Deals, we have deals that we do in.Detroit.We have deals we do in Northwest Indiana, Maryland, Florida.We've actually done deals as many as 21different states just in my company as well as the territory of Puerto Rico.And so we look at even the different offerings because when we have our meetings with the VIP Plus community there are folks that are getting deals that are in Spokane or folks are getting deals.In Sacramento, there's folks that are getting deals to do in Houston, Dallas Kansas City, on the Missouri side.There's deals that are coming up that are in Huntsville, Alabama.And so we look at all the different data components.We talk about what's happening with those deals, and is it one they would be willing to put their capital in based on if it is a fix and flip if it is a long-term hold for appreciation and or rental income, and each and every market area is absolutely positively different,but we want to be able to make good decisions about those transactions because even then, It might be somebody that's a acting investor in the community that is bringing the deal, and there'll be a passive income investor that will fund the deal, but we're all speaking the same language, looking at the same data.So it makes it a very fluid way to engage, even though look, if it's not good, we call it on a carpet as well.But it's a really transparent environment to have those discussions and look at deals.And a lot of times it's gotten so good.Again, being a servant leader, helping everyone build their own skill sets,a couple different things will happen.Different leaders or members of the community will talk about.Market areas that they've already done deals in that they could respond to even better than I could.There'll be those that have deployed capital with another partner in the group and they say, Hey, yeah, this one needs always performed, and these are the things that they will do and communicate with.So there's just a wealth of transparency that takes place within the VIP plus community, and I could be more proud.To essentially just be the impetus to get it going, but still be, there to watch and guide to make sure that we continue to have the same vulnerability and transparency in all the deals and engagement that we do if it doesn't work.We just say no, where no one is emotionally attached to any transaction, cuz real estate is not for the faint of heart.You've really gotta have some fortitude to go through and being able to say no to a transaction is so very vital.And all the engagement, you can't,you don't take chances on deals.You make intelligent and wise, wise decisions about how you go forward managing the risk that is inherent to doing real estate investing.So it's a lot of fun really be in a position to guide.I can't tell you, and just so many stories that go into this.We've recently had during the pandemic,Clients that were outside the country.One young lady was in Buenos Aires Argentina, and she couldn't come back to the US.She and her fiance had to stay there.And being in the investor comps community,she was actually able to identify wholesale deals in Evansville, Indiana.Of all places and do transactions,getting the properties in the contract,finding buyers in the area double closing and earning five figures worth of income over the nearly six months that she couldn't come back to the US.That's when you know that you're engaging and providing stuff, and it really makes a difference in people's lives.It's been a joy, Mike.I absolutely, positively enjoy it.MJ.That's awesome.Obviously you've built a very tight-knit community of investors that, that, that really provide value to each other.And that's one of the things that,what I was talking about, like that97% of people in this community that I've met are just so giving.And they wanna share what they learned throughout their trials and tribulations and mistakes that they've made and all of that.Yes.It's, that's fantastic.Now, there was something else that you were pointing out too,that I think is very important.I, myself, most of my deals that I've invested in have been passive, right.As a limited partner and when you were talking about how you'll have investors that come in and some that are like very active in the deal and then, They also wanna make sure that information's provided to those limited partners the folks that are coming in to provide the capital, right?They're all looking at the same data.And I think that is so important because I tell other people, like when you get into multifamily real estate, If you wanna invest as a limited partner, it's just as important for you to research that asset as it is for those general partners because you wanna make sure that you're putting your money into a group of people that you trust, but also into an asset that you believe is a good fit.For your portfolio.So that is super important to make sure that you have that data at hand as well,that you're making a good decision and not just, like you said before, like throwing spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.That's super important.So I'm glad you pointed that out.Now?No, lemme.Yeah.Yeah, sure.Even there's other dynamics to go into this because, again, we're really focused on single family and in small multifamily in terms of the active investments deploying capital, whether it's a long-term hold, short-term deal, whatever the case may be.But because the passive income investors have, there's some accredit investors that have.Hundreds of thousands, if not million dollars to deploy.And they're doing it in these funds and syndications.If we.Or private lending as well.One of the examples that I use is we have a person that brought us a deal that was an out of the ground self-storage build in Decatur, Alabama.Okay.And they had done a different investment in a self storage in Bozeman, Montana.And the question was, what should they look for in terms of the perspectives, the types of people that would be renting from and out the ground Bill in Decatur, Alabama.Now, he didn't see any agriculture,any long-term leases that were part of the build out.On the Decatur, Alabama one.And that's because there wouldn't be the cell storage.For the vast majority for a town like Bozeman is two things.One, it's gonna be all the heavy equipment that needs to be stored over the winter for the agriculture that's not taking place.And then it is a huge outdoor area, so you've got a wealth of storage for the toys.The RVs, the raptors the Class A, class C, class B vehicles, the Fifth Wheels, all that goes and is part of the revenue stream for self storage in that market area.It's not so much the case and to a much lesser degree in a place like Decatur, Alabama.So we had to get into and look and see how many people were moving to the market area, how many jobs were coming to the market area.Were rental rates increasing in that market area.Those are gonna be the drivers of the data analysis for the client that was looking to see should they engage in this out of the ground self storage investment.Now, again, that's not our.Poor single family, small multi-family.But it's the same type of practical information that we look at in the market areas, whether it was single family or something like a out of the ground builds on self storage.That's what makes the community and the data and the background as an appraiser.So very literally invaluable.To the members of the community and we got folks that join us all the time.We have folks that build up and invite other people to come be a part just as guests to look under the hood.And it's that type of value add being a servant leader to all the different active and passive investors that it just makes it so much more fun.And I can't I don't see myself stop doing this anytime soon.My work literally is play.Yeah, I love it.When you find something that you're so passionate about that.That you're doing.And you call, you called it work.I'll do that in quotation marks, right?Can you really consider this work when it's something you love and you're so passionate about?Like you said, your work is your play, right?So you just, you really love and have a passion for what you do.I could even consider this work.This is just you doing something that you love and it's serving other people.So that's awesome.MJ, I wanted to ask you, cause I was playing around on your website earlier.I saw so besides, obviously you know,what you guys do is, the comps, all that data and all that stuff that you guys provide for real estate investors, but there's other things that you have on there as well.Other valuable resources that I saw as I was messing around.Like you guys have courses and stuff, so other things that are available to the VIP plus members.So can you tell us some other valuable resources people will find with investor comps?Yeah.So as part of our VIP plus community, we provide.As one package.All of our prior trainings that I've had the good fortune to develop, we, we have a good HUD cheap Government house program that you can wholesale, buy and sell government houses from hud.We teach how to do REO investing,real estate owned property directly from the banks at a discount.We actually identify and teach.How to find buyers, how to find private lenders that both of those will add to your real estate investing.Of course, I teach how to do valuation.Know your ARV know your after repair value.That's something you gotta at least take, like a 101 valuation course.So that's in there.We actually have an OPM.We teach, if you don't have a lot of capital, you need additional resources,even just to do earnest money.There's a way to partner with individuals to do that.So there's a wealth of different teachings and trainings.We just did our ninth annual VIP Summit.We record that entire event and that becomes part of our offerings when you join or a part of the VIP Plus community.We also hold and keep the data separate because there's a lot of times where.Literally maybe you're utilizing other resources, maybe using a property shark and you feel like you've got data that,that's fine, but it's the training in the community that adds so much value.Others, they only rely on the investor comps data.So we have both of those available inside the community, get all the training and part of the engagement, the meetings that we have every week, the conversations that we have all the time.And then also you have.The data separate.So it's basically the one or the other, but most times it's both.Yeah.MJ, I love that because, it's not just the data that you get, right?It is the knowledge that you impart on people as well.How to interpret that information and that's what's super valuable because you could sit here and sign up for any other, Like you were talking about before other websites that might provide some of the data, but not everything's going to give you the same resource and same value that you're gonna get with investor comps because you're providing this is how you actually read this.This is how get this after repair value for this property.So it's not just, oh this website told me I'll get this much.Why is it telling you'll get that much and then now you can understand that process better?So I think that is huge because I'm a big prop.I'm a big proponent of education.I think education is the most important piece when it comes to any type of investment you're trying to go into.You should educate yourself on it and not just just go in there and just guns blazing because guess what?You're gonna get education either way.Either you could do the education upfront.Or you're gonna get that trial by fire and education in the moment.Yeah.And pay for it.Probably pay even more than what you would've paid to take a course.Yeah.So that's super important.So I definitely appreciate that you talk about that.Now I have one more question I want to ask you before we go into the final round.And I think I have a really good idea that I might know what your answer's gonna be.But MJ I wanna know.What is your why?Why do you do what you do with investor comps?Yeah it's really pretty simple.Again, it just goes back to being a servant leader.I want people to be able to have the freedom, lifestyle, and enjoyment.First and foremost I'm a husband,a father, a dad grandfather.Then comes, tri then comes faith, then comes, triathlete and actually real estate.There's probably about third or fourth cuz I have a real passion for.Living a life that knowing that our wealth is our health.It's really not about the resources,it's how you take care of yourself.Practicing, getting lots of fluids at rest, but be and by doing that,I'm able to be that servant leader that I can to so many people that's the joy i there, there's.Experiences that people have had that come to the community that have just been negative when it comes to learning about real estate.Someone tells them it's a good deal and they're just not able to verify that or know for themself,and that's what we talk about.We want everyone to have that.Feeling of confidence and sense of control that they know they're gonna make a profit as they deploy their time, energy, or capital on a real estate transaction.We do a newsletter every week that I write, keeping current even in terms of how AI is impacting the real estate arena.I do my Monday moments with MJ every single week at 12:30 PM Eastern time, no matter where I'm at.On Facebook to be able to continue to provide and pour into people.There's no cost for that.I just want folks to be in a position where they can make good decisions about what's coming at them in the marketplace today.So that why the, it's all about being a servant leader.It really is.Yeah.No I love that.I love that.And I love how, You're so passionate about this about real estate and what you're doing and the mission that you have, and it's still third on your list.And I still can't get over the fact that you keep saying you're a grandfather.I just don't see it, man.It's crazy.But yeah that, that's amazing, man.And I had a feeling this is where you were gonna go with that.But being a servant leader and giving back, y.There's nothing better.I feel like in life and that's one of the things that I love about what I do with this podcast too.This is one of the ways that I can give back to the community and share other people's stories,share what they're doing.If it's something that can help someone else, man, this means the world to me, right?I appreciate what you're doing and the mission that you're on.And with that being said, We're gonna go into the final round where I'm gonna ask you the same four questions I ask everybody that comes on the show, but it'll help give us an idea of how MJ is when he's he's got a little pressure put on him.So if you're ready to go,we'll get that party started.My pleasure.All right, let's do it.Okay.So MJ first question is, what's the biggest mistake you've ever made in real estate?Wow.Probably the biggest one was I was doing some transactions in the St.Louis market area and I was doing some of the surrounding counties,but I was right in City of St.Louis and it was the first time being in an area that had these.Historical limitation components,and so fortunately the deal was not one I had to pay interest on.It was just an equity deal where we split the profits in the end,but man, if I had to make interest payments over there, the additional time that it took, it really would've.Impacted the deal negatively, it still was a pain because there was different architecture and then you had to have the inspector come out and the inspector come out, and the inspector come out.And I just really was frustrated with the number of trips and the time and energy that, so just to get what, what in other market areas was never even questioned.So that one really hurt in terms of the bumps and the bruises and, oh, now I gotta do this.And, I learned a lot from it.But man, it just didn't leave a good taste in my mouth.Yeah, absolutely.That, yeah.I appreciate your transparency there because a lot of times it's really hard to talk about.The mistakes that we make, right?Everybody wants to hear the success stories and the feel good things when it comes to real estate.But in reality, there, there are times where you know you make a mistake and you pay the price, like I talked about that education you have to pay for.Right?And so the next question kind of ties into this because it's Hey MJ, what is something that you've learned that you wish you knew when you first started?Wow.Okay.Something I've learned, I wish I knew I first started.The, and this goes right back to my initial real estate investing.Now I'm an appraiser and I work with a whole bunch of mortgage brokers.And I had the opportunity to go to one of my I guess my bigger clients because I was buying three townhome co I guess three, three townhome, HOA properties.They weren't condom, but they were HOA properties in the same neighborhood.As a matter of fact, one building was two of them next door to each other.And so I went to my loan officer and he, when it, when we got ready to close, I had three different lenders, three different interest rates, three different closing costs.I'm like, man, what the heck happened?And so I wish I had more knowledge.On really how mortgage instruments work in particular when you're doing it from an investment perspective.I learned the hard way in doing those transactions, but then I went and studied and got some mentorship on the just how mortgages work, especially where investment properties is concerned,and it had a wealth of success.Not only in my own portfolio, but advising others in that scenario.So that's one thing that I really wish I had known going into and having long-term hold cash flowing properties on the mortgage side.If I had better knowledge base there,that would've been invaluable to me.But, again, it's something you learn after the fact and it pays your dividends later on.Absolutely.It's amazing when you look at that,how, everyone could be looking at the same set of data and.Come back with different numbers, it's amazing.Oh yeah, this is the interest rate we'll give you, and then somebody else comes back and they give you a better rate or worse rate and you're like, how are you guys coming up with this stuff?Yeah.No, I definitely appreciate that.Okay.Alright, so MJ, next question.Again, this one kind of ties into it as well but do you have any tips or tricks that you would recommend to someone that is just getting started out today?Yeah.First and foremost, there's a really great tool that we put out there called 21 Motivated Seller Leads Number 21 Motivated Seller Leads.And what that does in the advent of the internet, stuff like that,it allows you to go directly to.All these hundreds of thousands of discounted properties out there that the banks are already looking to get rid of.So rather than having to spend money on leads and driving for dollars, you have immediate access to transactions that you can vet utilizing investor comp as a data source to start building up your portfolio and doing live transactions very quickly.That's one of the things that really drives that dynamic when you ask that question.Yeah, No definitely.I definitely appreciate that.Cuz for somebody that's just coming in it's important that they start off on the right foot.Instead of some of the ways that some of us got into real estate learning a lot by trial, by error and mistakes that we've made that's.One of the things that I love about this is being able to give back and impart that wisdom onto others that they don't make some of the same mistakes that we've made when we first started out.So absolutely love that.Okay, MJ, final question of the final round, and that is, okay.Do you have a favorite business investing or real estate related book or podcast or both?Wow.Yeah, so I really do the real estate guys.They provide a wealth of information.Their podcast is, Really good, really like that one.And then I'm constantly reading,right now I'm reading Dr.Ben Hardy's book.10 X is easier than two X in terms of and it applies to different aspects of our life.Your family time it ask, it applies to the quality of the life that you're having.Of course it applies to your business as well.I really like Dr.Ben Hardy.He and Dan Sullivan from Strategic Coach have put out.Three books recently starting with Who Not How the Gap in the Gain, and now 10 x is easier than two x i, when they come out with something, I'm ready to go read it.It pretty much right away it's not even a question or should I get it,I'll just go ahead and get it anyway.So 10 x is easier than two X is what I'm reading right now and definitely like the Real Estate Guys podcast.Awesome.Definitely appreciate those recommendations.I have not heard of that book yet.10 x is easier than two x.I'm adding that to my list.The other ones who not how.Yeah, absolutely.Great book and yeah.Okay.Definitely appreciate that recommendation.And the Real Estate guys is actually one of the shows that's on my weekly listen to list.It's one of the ones I always listen to that and BiggerPockets and all that stuff.I am a podcast, actually I'm a content sponge.I am constantly.Listening to good podcasts or watching YouTube videos that are real estate related or business related.Cause I just find that so very important, right?To make sure that I'm always absorbing good knowledge and other things like even when I'm working out now,sometimes I'll listen to a podcast instead of music, unless I'm feeling like I really need some motivation,then I gotta put the music back on.But my kids, it drives them nuts because every time they get in the car, they're like, dad, please no more podcasts.Just put on Katie Perry or Taylor Swift or something.But yeah, that's, it is what it is, man.Hey, so lots of value from this conversation.Definitely appreciate it.And with that being said, MJ, there's people that are listening to the show right now that are saying, you know what I really love what MJ is talking about here.I really enjoyed listening and learning about investor comps, and I wanna know more.So could you share with us where people could find more information about you and investor comps?Obviously your website any social media profiles or anything like that.Anybody could follow.Let us have it all.There we go.Just two simple things.One is love, welcoming and inviting people to be part of the VIP Plus community.That's very simple.It's VIP dot investor comps slash schedule.Vip dot investor comps.com.Forward slash schedule.Let's have a chat.Let's see if it's a good fit for where you want to go.And really to gain access and get under the hood.See more of what we're doing.Easy way to engage is the mark jackson.com.We'd love to have an opportunity to catch up with you, chat engage on social media, stuff like that.So that's gonna be the best ways to really come and be a part of us.Seeing how you can invest anywhere from anywhere.Awesome.Appreciate that so much and hey finally to close things out, do you have any final thoughts for our listeners?Yeah I love the fact that Mike, you're taking time, sharing your story.You are basically living what we've been teaching, this, being able to have the freedom, the lifestyle, choose where you want to be while deploying capital and being engaged in other, in, in other investments that are in market areas that are more favorable and don't require as much capital or that you can.Partner with others you're living out the very thing that I love to teach and care and share with people.So again, I can't thank you enough for the opportunity to speak and be engaged with your audience, you and I being able to touch lives.And I pray that you'll accept our invitation to come be a part of the investor comps.Invest Anywhere From Anywhere podcast as well.Absolutely.I appreciate that.Thank you so much.And MJ, this has been absolutely solid.I had a great time talking with you.I learned a lot lots of valuable nuggets from this interview, and I'm sure that my guests are like, okay, mind blown.We need to know more about what's going on with investor comp.Great stuff.So I just wanna say again, thank you so much.For you for taking the time out of the day to spend an hour with me and just have this chat.It was a great time.Absolutely.Couldn't have enjoyed it more.Mike, thank you very much.Awesome.And hey, also to my listeners, I want to thank all of you so very much for joining me and our special guest, Mark MJ Jackson on the Average Joe Finances Podcast.Go leave us a five star review and tell us what you liked about today's specific episode with MJ.Aloha from Hawaii and have a great rest of your day.