189. Alleviating the 1031 Exchange Time Crunch with Alex Olson

Hey, Welcome back to the Average Joe Finances podcast. I'm your host Mike Cavaggioni, and today's guest is Alex Olson so Alex, I am super excited to talk to you today. Thank you so much for joining me on the show.

Thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it.

Absolutely. Hey, I wanna start this off the same way I start every podcast episode, and we wanna know more about you. So if you could share a little bit about yourself, share your story. Who is Alex Olson?

I appreciate that. Yeah, so I could go back and do a bunch of crazy details. I think obviously the reason why a lot of people are probably listening your show, entrepreneurship, right? I grew up, my dad was self-employed. He was a farmer, actually a hog farmer and a commercial row crop farmer. And so with that he was working for himself his whole life, and I didn't, when I first graduated college, I went into and went into the corporate world and had a job there for about 15 years, but I was always looking for something different, something that I could feel more accomplished with, number one and number two. Make a lot more money or at least have the opportunity to make a lot more money than a 9 to five job. And we ended up building our dream house. Before I had left the corporate world. And how that really worked was I'd saved up every single bonus I got, every single extra cash we had. I saved all of that knowing that hey, look, I had a dream of building a decently nice house that was customized to our needs. So we built a dream house on the lake. And with that, we, I learned a lot through the process. I learned about financing, it's not just like I'm going out buying a house. It was more like I was going out. I had to get a construction loan, had to learn how banks work, had to meet contractors, had to learn all of the ins and outs of building a house. And at the end of the day turns out we'd done a really good job of building our house on and under budget. And we had a bunch of equity already built up because we'd done a good job of buying the vacant land at a certain price and done a good job of building the house at a certain price. We had a lot of equity in that, and so afterwards, I was like, man, we've always, I've always wanted to do real estate investing. My dad was a farmer. He owned a lot of his own farmland, so there was some kind of tie to that where he knew how to go out and get a bank loan, but he didn't have any idea on real estate. He actually shied away from real estate. And so I was like, okay, how can I make this happen? So I went out and got a home equity line of credit. I bought a five plex. I bought a duplex. I bought four single family homes with a dream of, oh my gosh, I'm gonna turn all these into mega millionaire Airbnbs here in the urban core of Kansas City. And then the pandemic hit and my Airbnbs went to crap which I understand why. And I lost my job, which was actually a blessing cuz before that, right before that, about six months before I lost my job, I decided to go out and get my real estate license. I fell in love with buying properties. Not just the financial aspect of it, but just the negotiating, pretending to be an attorney, as you're negotiating on contracts meeting new people, buying in amazing locations. So I was lucky enough to have my real estate license got fired. Then I went into and went into a brokerage firm where I met Logan Freeman. I dunno if you know him, but he's a big capital razor in the real estate space and he and I had a passion for working with buyers in Kansas City, and we found out there's a lot of people that are on 1031 exchange deadlines, which is part of real estate. And allows people to really grow their wealth. And so with that, we created this niche of helping people that are in this 1031 exchange, bind deadline, and finding them and getting them over the hump of the fears of, man, it takes a long time to close these out. I don't know what to buy. I need cash flow. I need X, Y, and Z. And so we help them in that process. And so that's really what we focus on now as a real estate brokerage firm in Kansas City, is helping people grow their wealth, whether it through a 1031 exchange or not. But how can you go from one unit or two units, or eight units to 10, to 16 to 20 to a hundred? And that's really what we focus on now.

Awesome, Alex. That's that's some background, man. And what a way to, to get into real estate, right? It was almost like, you. You already knew you enjoyed it, but then your hand was forced right. When the pandemic hit. What I find interesting though is, you started to realize the power of real estate when you were building your own home, right? Got the land, had the home developed and built. And then once everything was set and done, you realized how much equity you had. And it's whoa, hang on a second here. There's something here. And that's to me, I, that's what it sounds like pushed you towards wanting to invest in real estate and look at that further down. So that's pretty awesome, man. Now, is there a particular reason why you choose Kansas City as your market, or is that just, is that where you live?

Yeah, so I was blessed. Come to find out, I had no idea really, but blessed that Kansas City's a pretty good cash flowing market and pretty popular with investors from that perspective. And it's a growing city. I actually moved down here. I'm from Nebraska originally, and I moved to Kansas City because I wanted a bigger city and something that seemed more progressive. This was right around, when I moved down here was 15, 16, 17 years ago, right around the urban core revitalization of a lot of these Midwestern towns decent sized cities and Kansas City had a lot going on. They were building what was then called the Sprint Center. And oh my gosh, we're gonna try and get an MBA team, and oh my gosh, we're gonna do all these other great things. And so that really drew me to one of the reasons why it drew me to Kansas City. And yeah, it just turns out it was a great cash flowing market.

Awesome. Awesome. So what. What made you like really start looking into and get into 1031 exchanges? Wasn't a personal experience you had doing your first one or what was it that attracted you to that?

It was that a 1031 exchange buyer was really under serviced and, I stumbled into that because one, my mentor, Logan Freeman, he was working with these folks and they have, if you're on a 1031 exchange deadline, You have a lot of money that you either have to buy a new property with or you're gonna take the tax consequence of that. And most people don't want to take that tax consequence. So I looked at that as an opportunity that, you've got a buyer that is needs to buy. And I have at least what I feel like is an expertise in knowing and helping them buy something. Because I bought real estate before on my own. And just knowing the area, and I also have a background in finance, and so those kind of things like, man, this is like a perfect fit for me because these people are on a deadline and, they have to identify three properties within a certain amount of time. I don't have a problem, cold calling and finding sellers and owners and that kind of thing and, working with property managers and getting it all lined up that it seemed like it was going to be a good fit from a a real estate brokerage standpoint as well.

Yeah, so definitely saw like a need in the market and just started attacking it, right? So I mean that, I think that's one of the things that all successful entrepreneurs do, right? Is like you, you find out what the problem is. And then you offer a solution to that problem. It's not so much the, oh, hey, I just wanna do 1031 s because they're cool and can save a lot of money. So no, that's great. But I'm doing 1031 exchange. I'm helping you find properties for your 1031 exchange because of the actual benefits that you get from it. And a lot of people aren't educated on that and they don't get to truly understand, what they will save with that tax burden. And I think part of the problem is, like I said, is that education piece. Like a lot of people just don't know, and they're like, Hey, I'm selling one of my investment properties and wanting to get into something bigger, and they wind up paying all these taxes on that first property that they sold. And now it's I can't buy the property the bigger property I wanted because, uncle Sam took a third of it. So that that's another key thing there is hey, you can get into something bigger and better now because you're not giving up this large chunk of your real estate profits.

Yeah, that's a big thing. You already touched on it a lot, but yeah, people, obviously they don't do it all the time. If a lot of people, some people don't get me wrong, some people might only do it once, maybe twice in a lifetime, and it, it seems daunting, it seems. And then you also don't know, you're assuming I only pay taxes on a certain percent, right? It's only 20% on the profit I make. It's a lot more than that because the profit people don't understand or forget. The depreciation is a big part of the process. And when you sell and you elect not to do a 1031 exchange, you have to recapture all of that depreciation which can be, 50% of the equity that you have in there and you've got to plan for that. And, why pay the taxes now when you can defer 'em? That, it's all case by case basis, but why pay taxes now when you can defer 'em and continue to get all those same tax benefits?

Yep, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. All right, Alex, so now with you know what you've built right now, what are some of the services that you offer?

So our core services is helping just like a traditional commercial real estate brokerage. So we will source, but our focus is on working with buyers. If you go out to a larger firm, typically in the one to $10 million space, those brokers are all after trying to get listings. We definitely will do listings, but our main focus is working on buyers. Trying to find what they need in the marketplace. Now the reason why a lot of other brokerage firms don't work with buyers in multi-family space of this size is because, the classic saying in our world is buyers are liars. There's a hundred thousand buyers out there and they all want to buy. It's up to us as a broker to really decide where we're gonna spend our time. Because if everybody wants to buy, there's not enough time to work with everybody, so you gotta find the ones that are truly active in buying. So we take a very white glove service to it where we have an off-market marketplace where all of our off-market deals are on. Sounds weird, but all of our off-market deals are on this marketplace. You can go on there, you can see all of the in income expenses, photos, et cetera, of these deals that nobody else really has access to. And you can evaluate properties that way. We're gonna help you line up your property manager, your attorney, your insurance company. Insurance is a huge aspect in the. Commercial real estate space. Then the other piece, of course, is making sure it gets closed out. I say this all the time, anybody can put a property under contract but only to select brokers actually know how to close those out. So there's a big negotiating piece when you're a buyer that you have to overcome, whether it's education on your inspection, whether it is simply just pricing expectations. And so we walk through white glove experience, all of that. Process and then you add on top the 1031 exchange. There's all those service vendors too, right? You've got a qualified intermediary, which is required for a 1031 exchange that we refer those out to. Then you've got your replacement properties that we're gonna help you identify in this market. But there's also other opportunities outside of this market that we help them with too. Cause some people are like, ah, I wanna be completely passive. So we help them find passive opportunities for 1031 exchange. And so it's very consultative. We're really making sure that they get across the finish line dot all their I, across all their T's when it comes to commercial real estate in the 1031 world.

Awesome. Yeah, it's cuz it's not as simple as it sounds like, oh, sell the one property and then, buy into something bigger. There's a whole lot that goes along with the 1031 exchange. And I've had a couple episodes that, that go pretty in depth into that, and the fact that, you put the process right there at their fingertips and give 'em like an all-in-one solution. So it Does take a lot of that burden off of those buyers. So I think that's pretty huge and I think that's something you don't see too much out there. You'll see the qualified enemy I can't even say the word that'll sit there and hold, the funds, you don't see too much about, those full service that you guys are offering as well. That is pretty interesting too, that you have this offline marketplace to find the off market deals, which is pretty cool, but it's almost like it's own on the market. Marketplace that's off the market. I'm a little confused by that, but yeah, I get what you're saying, man. So that's pretty cool.

The funny thing is, yeah, you talk about it and they say, hang on a second. That sounds like it's listed. And I'm like, I know it sounds like it's listed, it's not. But how we've developed it is we really, these people are members, so to speak. They sign up. It's just if you're going and say, Hey look, I wanna be on your market, your deal flow list. We actually have more of a little bit more sophisticated, so most people aren't used to that. It's, they're used to maybe a broker having a blast that goes out and maybe there's a Google Drive link with a couple properties on it kind of thing.

A pocket listings and, yeah.

Pocket listings. But we try to add a little bit extra level to that. We actually even spend a lot of money with the seller. It's our money, but we're spending time with the sellers and money on getting drone f footage if they allow us to, of the exterior getting actually a video, or sorry, a photo guy in there to do a 3D tour of it, setting up the 3D camera. So that way, a lot of these out-of-state guys, even local guys and gals, you don't even have to go into the units and set up a tour. We've got all that for you. So we can do a lot more volume and help a lot more investors than just, five or six a year. We're helping, 40, 50 people a year.

Yeah. So that, that essentially it's a way that they can keep their property off the market. But if the right buyer comes along, they're like, yeah, hey we'll sell. I believe you can, The right price will get anybody to sell, yeah. If somebody came to my house and said, Hey, we'll give you $2 million for this house when it's worth about like almost $1.2 million I'd probably take the $2 million and say, here you go. But that's there, there is a price where people will say, okay, yeah let's do this. But it's interesting that, cuz you have this marketplace set up to where, it's basically a lot of the work is now done. For these buyers and they're just looking for a place to move this money, right? To not inherit that tax burden that comes with it cuz it is a short timeframe, right? You have six months, you have 45 days to identify the three properties, right? And then you have six months to actually close on them. So it's definitely, this definitely helps shorten that timeframe for a lot of folks.

Yeah, it really does. And we also take a look at, there's so much that we try to put into it from a consultative process cuz there's so many people that maybe own a duplex or a fourplex and they've owned it for 10 years and they've got a ton of equity in it, whether that's been paid down over that 10 year period, the principle payment. And then the other side of it is, appreciation. So they've got a ton of equity. They're maybe only getting 2%, 3%, 4% on their original equity that they put into it. Whereas if you sell that in 1031 exchange into a, you go from a fourplex to a 10 units or 15, now look at all that cash flow you're, you've got going on. And that's all just through doing 1 1031 exchange. And we've got, of course, case studies on, you know how that works. We've got one guy. That we sold his four four plexes for him, which was about $1.6 million bucks. He partnered with another guy that was also selling his 10 units. They ended up partnering together with their 1031 exchange. This was all through 1031 exchange to buy 92 units for $7.5 million. So he took his $1.6 million and got into, 92 units in a class A market. That's the power of being creative with it also being really prepared. So we helped him with the timing of all that. And you can go from a couple fourplexes to almost a hundred units in six months if you do it correctly.

Yeah that's huge. And the thing is too, they also had a lot of that principle paid down their operating expenses are gonna be a lot less when it comes to how much of it is bank financed, right? So that's pretty huge, especially if cash flow is what you're going for which most people are, cash flow is king, right? Because that's what replaces your income. That's what allows you the financial freedom to move on and do something else. I definitely think that is huge. Alex, with everything that you do with your company. So you're definitely focused on helping buyers succeed. What would you say are some of the most valuable resources that you guys have that help the buyers?

Great question. So from a buyer's perspective, the first thing you gotta do when you're working with us is you gotta understand the Kansas City market and every real estate market is different. We know that most buyers know that, but there's a lot of real estate markets where you can only buy in certain pockets, whether it's urban core or suburban, and you got a lot of markets to stay away from. And then you also have a lot of markets too, where maybe they're not very landlord friendly or they have high taxes or, different geopolitical issues. So you've gotta understand the Kansas City market, which has no real landlord restrictions and also has pretty low taxes. So those are two good things. Then the third thing you gotta understand is that most submarkets in Kansas City are good places to invest. You get a lot of questions like is this a good area? Is this a bad area? And I hate to say it because it sounds lazy, but no, the most areas are pretty dang good. So we provided a full education package essentially for them to understand the market. What are each of the submarkets, what are those kind of returns look like? So that's, One of the pieces you gotta have. Then we're also gonna go ahead and provide at least three different property management companies for them to work with and contact. So that's the second thing. So education and property management. Third thing is insurance, because that is such a large chunk of the the expense ratio. And you can't just go out there and use or at least we advise against it, state Farm Insurance or something like that. You need to find a commercial style insurance company that gets you the best rates of terms. So that's the third piece. And then you've gotta have a lender. You've gotta have most of the time in the space we work in, which is the class, A, B, or C, but it has some kind of value add component. So you've gotta have a local lender that knows the market wants to land on it. It's not gonna do a whole bunch of silliness with loan requirements. So we've got lenders all lined up for this in, into Kansas City. And, they'll help you obviously with the rates and terms, et cetera. So we really provide this kind of upfront package to them to get comfortable with the market, know their boots on the ground here and if they're already here, maybe improve their boots on the ground. And really get them started on the Kansas City market and bought into every single piece of the economic activity that's going on here.

Yeah that's fantastic. Especially. With those pieces, right? You're talking about the education, the property management, having the right insurance it can't just be the cookie cutter versions of all that. I always been a firm believer in education no matter what. Like niche or investment class you wanna get into knowing about it is so important, especially knowing the market that you wanna invest in, right? You're talking about, people that are investing in Kansas City, like you need to know Kansas City. You can't just say, oh, I found some stuff online, this looks good the numbers work, and yeah, I'm just gonna buy it. And then turns out, you find out later on that you can't even rent in that area. So it's, that's definitely super important, man. So I appreciate you pointing that out. All right, Alex. Let me see I wanna ask you this too, because, your evolution going from when you started and got out of the corporate world, 15 years is a long time, right? To be in corporate America and then deciding to just jump ship and bet on yourself, right? So I wanna ask you this. What is your why? What made you want to go out on your own and be an entrepreneur?

Good question as always. Why do we do the things that we do? And there was a couple major points for me. It was untapped, uncorked, untapped income potential. Okay. When you're working for yourself, you can make as much as little as you want. Now, of course, you're always confined by what market you're in, but that to me is a, was a big piece. I felt like I was a pretty high performer, my corporate job, and I had a lot of ideas of how to like, incentivize myself how I can make more money. But looking back on it now, of course, hindsight's 2020, you can see all these little points where they. I don't wanna say blocked those, that's not quite fair. But it was like, man, it doesn't fit into really the business model. And so that was the number one to me is untapped or uncorked income potential. And then the other thing is I really needed a sense of accomplishment. I really needed, I felt like I always wanted to accomplish things. So I wanted to get things done and not just do something for somebody else. So maybe I'm a little selfish in that way, but, I love getting deals done. I like getting things across the finish line, never giving up on things. If you're in the corporate world, you've got all these projects and maybe some of 'em are amazing and maybe some of 'em don't work out. But when you work for yourself, you really only get paid. When things get done or sold or produce.

When you perform.

Or when Yeah, when you perform.

Yeah.

You can't just sit back and take half a day off and make the same amount of money. Now you can do that occasionally. But every second, every minute really matters. In how you use your time. And that was really fulfilling to me, was coming into, working for yourself is every minute you wanted to spend, you could spend it on yourself in some way. Whether it's improving your business or, improving your relationships with others in the community or whatever the case may be. But it was all about, you and helping you grow.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And everybody has their reasons, for why they do what they do. But, truly knowing what your why is what's gonna help you guide yourself, and keep you on course, right? Because, you can always sit there and focus back, and remember why it is you're doing what you're doing. And that's why I love a question like that, man, because it really just makes you think about, Am I really giving this? Am I really putting my best self forward in what I'm doing today? And I like what you were talking about with, when you're on your own, right? If you sit there and you say, I'm just gonna take half the day and go watch TV or whatever how much that can really affect what you're doing. If you're on a roll and everything and things are going great, sure you, you might have time to sit there and take half a day off. But honestly, when you're on your own, when you take that off time, there's nobody else working for you, right? There's no one else doing what you can do for yourself better than you. So I think, yeah that's awesome man. I really appreciate that answer. Okay. I definitely would like to transition this into what I call now the final round. I know you have a hard stop soon. I wanna make sure I can get you to where you gotta be next. But in this portion of the podcast, I'm gonna ask you the same four questions I ask everybody that comes on the show. It helps us get into the mind of Alex Olson when he's under pressure and having to deal with some pretty tough things, which I know. Doing what you do. You've had some, you've been put in tough situations, so I'm pretty excited to to see where the, where this goes. So if you're ready, we'll get this party started.

Let's do it.

Let's do it. All right, Alex. All right. Throughout your time, I'm sure you've had plenty, but I would like to know what you believe is the biggest mistake you've ever made in real estate?

Biggest mistake in real estate was all related to the Airbnb world. Okay? When I talked about the beginning, I bought four Airbnb houses. They were all very large houses. They took a lot of money to furnish. They took a lot of effort to manage. You don't think about, okay, yeah, I'll furnish this place and, I'll buy all this furniture. It'll last forever. A couch doesn't last forever when it just doesn't. So then instead of, you buy a $500 couch, boo. Now that broke. Instantly you got another $500, you gotta spend Airbnb. I'm sure they might cover it sometimes, but usually don't. And the reason why I made that mistake, Was because I was pushing myself thinking that, hey look this is gonna get me outta my corporate job cuz remember that was before I had transitioned out of my corporate job into real estate. I was like, man, please, I need something that's gonna get me outta this corporate job. Oh, here there's an Airbnb thing. Oh my gosh, everybody's gonna love these locations and houses and what can go wrong, the pandemic hit. And so I put a lot of eggs in that basket and a lot of money in that basket, and I relied too much. I mean, Location's, everything, don't get me wrong, but. I relied too much on the location aspect of those properties. And an advisor at the time was like, Hey, yeah, everybody, Airbnb's gonna kill it. So I got oversold. I got oversold really on my emotions of getting out of corporate world. And so then that. Made me buy all these properties and buy all these, furnitures and furnishings and look a amazing, and at the end of the day it really didn't get me any further than it actually took me back a long ways.

Wow. Yeah I appreciate your transparency there because a lot of times that's not stuff that's easy to talk about. And I feel like a lot of us have been in situations like that where we feel like, we put all of our eggs in one basket. And what really sucks about that is when you drop the basket, most or all of the eggs break. So it's you put yourself in a tough situation, so definitely appreciate that, man. All right, Alex, so the next question these all kind of tie into each other, so you'll see how this is going. But what is something that you've learned that you wish you knew when you first got started?

So one of the things, yeah, that's a great question because when I first got started in real estate, I thought, I wanted to come into a property when I bought a property where, I was just gonna use my own money. So I wanted as little a loan as possible on it in terms of, there's no repairs need, this property's perfect. Any repairs that are needed, I'll just, pay for it outta my own pocket. That was my mistake. Going into it, buying it, I don't wanna say as is, but buying it, that the property is working and performing. So now every single person that comes to us, I say, Hey look, we need to find. A value add component to this? So this particular property, yeah, I mean it looks pretty good, it's got two very old air conditioner units. The outside needs to be cited. Let's go to the bank and get what's called a rehab loan as part of that acquisition. And oh, by the way, we can do an as completed appraisal so that way it. It all pencils out from a financing standpoint. So if I would've known that, I would've had, I would've accelerated a lot of my properties, would've been a lot nicer, a lot faster, and a lot higher rent. That would've been really nice to know.

Yeah, absolutely. Again these are the things, we learn as we go and part of that piece that makes you better at your craft, right? It's the education that comes from that. Yeah, definitely appreciate that, Alex.

I would've never known that and now I'm really happy I did. I'm really happy I learned that because it's like an extra exclamation point when I'm working with buyers. Say hey, look, let's make sure we get a rehab loan as part of this deal.

Yeah, absolutely. All right, cool. Hey, that and again, that's something that you learn over time, for those that are listening right now they're getting this information for free, which is fantastic.

Great.

All right, Alex, so the next question, and this also has to do with newbies, right? So do you have any tips or tricks that you would recommend to someone that is just getting started out today?

If you're starting today in real estate and you live in a somewhat of a cash flow market, actually even not really just anywhere. The best advice I can give to you is to buy a fourplex, okay? Live in one of the units. Rent out the other three units, and if you're single, rent out the other bedrooms in your unit and you would have a cash flowing machine because you're getting that property for very little money down. Maybe 3%, three and a half, 4%, and that whole entire property just has so much income coming in on it's gonna pay for, of course, a mortgage, your rent. You're gonna have so much equity built into that property that your wealth building journey. Which is, really kind at the end of the day, retirement is going to be well ahead of anybody else and would've been well ahead of me at that time of just buying that fourplex, getting the first time home buyer or the FHA kind of loan on the fourplex, renting out all the units and continuing to do that until you can no longer stand having your roommates.

Yeah, that, that might. Put a fire under you too if you can no longer stand them anyway, okay. Appreciate that. All right, Alex, the final question of the final round is, and this is just an opinion based one, it's an easy one. Do you have a favorite business investing or real estate related book or podcast or both?

I have a book that I often recommend and I have a very particular reason why I recommended, not just because it's an entertaining book, because anybody can write, I'll tell you the name of it here in a second. Anybody can write a book and tell you all these great things that you need to do. But I learned best by real examples. And so my favorite book is, Am I Being Too Subtle by Sam Zell? And It's a real life account. Sam Zell's, a billionaire real estate investor. He essentially invented REIT's, real estate investing trusts. And so he goes through his life journey and there's, of course learning lessons in there, life lessons, all that kind of good stuff, but it's his real experience. That was, he's not just some schmuck that says he's rich. He rarely, this is the only book I think he's written. And so he likes to go out there and tout his experiences. And it's just a really good book. If you go through there, you can see all of the ways and the methods to invest in real estate, and you also get a real experience in that.

Awesome. I definitely appreciate that recommendation. I wrote that one down. That is not one I had on my list. So yeah, I appreciate that.

Yeah, it's a great one.

Alex, this is, this has been fantastic, but I do have one more question for you, and this is actually the most important question of all. Okay. So for those that have been listening to this so far, and thinking to themselves, man, I wanna learn more about the 1031 exchange, or I wanna learn more about the Kansas City market. Or, Hey, I wanna know more about Alex Olson. Where can people find more information about you and what you offer? Do you have a website you could share with us, social media accounts, anything like that?

Yeah, you can head over to my website Xchangecre.com. That's with an X. Like you can see this Big X back here Xchangecre.com. Email me alex@xchangecre.com. But of course, I'm all over LinkedIn. I post, I don't know, three, four times a week on real estate investing, 1031 exchanges, the Kansas City market. You can find me in my picture, Alex Olson. So I love talking real estate and the Kansas City market for sure.

Awesome. Thank you so much for that. So Alex, we are going to have all those links in the show notes to make it easy for people to find you. So if you're listening, you can copy and paste or click away. Just don't do it while you're driving. I always put that disclaimer out there. But Alex, this has been a real treat man. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on chat with me today and provide so much value to my audience. I genuinely appreciate it.

I love it, man. It's great to talk to you.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much and hey, to my listeners, I want to thank all of you for joining me and our special guest, Alex Olson on the Average Joe Finances podcast today. Go leave us a five star review and tell us what you liked about today's episode with Alex. Aloha from Hawaii and have a great rest of your day.