188. Building a Multifamily Portfolio on Active Duty with Jonathan New

Hey, Welcome back to the Average Joe Finances podcast. I'm your host, Mike Cavaggioni, and today's guest is Jonathan New. So Jonathan, super excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Hey, thanks for having me, Mike. It's an absolute pleasure to connect with you especially considering on the background that we have in common together, doing the military to retirement, us both going out as XOs and living that dream.

Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. And first off, thank you for your service. I'd be remiss if I didn't point that out, but, just like me, you are serving in the Navy, which is really cool. So near and dear to my heart. So definitely appreciate everything that you're doing. But I know, like just from talking off camera and everything you're getting pretty close to retirement, right?

Oh my goodness gracious. Counting down the days.

Awesome man.

Working on the 19th year, I've got. Oh, so what is that? It's got 15 months until I start terminal leave.

Who? Oh yeah, that count's going. Alright, so actually let's go ahead and start this off the same way I start every podcast episode off and let's get into that a little bit. If you could, we'd like to know more about you, so if you could share a little bit about yourself, share your story. Who is Jonathan New?

Okay. So I grew up in Aniston, Alabama. It's a little town right between Birmingham and Atlanta. Went to Auburn University, got my undergrad there. Commissioned to the Navy. My wife and I got into residential housing. Invested on accident in 2007 as a lot of people did.

Ooh, 2007. Oh yeah, man. We bought same time I did.

Yeah. It's a commonality amongst all of us. But we bought in Jacksonville, Florida for $200,000 and then we got orders to Japan and lo and behold, the value had dropped to $99,000. We became landlords and we did that. We even self-managed from Japan and that was the worst. That turned out to be four months. It was four months of self-managing. And then we wised up cuz that was impossible. So then we managed that until I got back. We went through department head years and then got to the point where we were coming back out for the XO rides. And then I decided I wanted, I discovered bigger pockets and found out that there's this whole real estate investing realm out there that you can actively do all the fun stuff. And I found the Burr strategy. So we sold the house in Jacksonville that had finally recouped its value. And I started doing fix and flips in Norfolk, Virginia. Did a triplex into a single family house, and then I started raising money from other people. Yeah, that was something that I'd never thought was possible. So then I started raising $40,000, $50,000 here and there all over the place, and people were coming outta the woodwork. Whenever I'd post something about my what I was doing, people would come out from the past and be like, Hey, put my money to work. Put my money to work, put my money to work. And it got to the point where I was doing like four or five houses every single month, but I was doing it all by myself and it became too much for me to handle. So then I started looking into commercial real estate, specifically multi-family and syndications, and hooked up with Jaspreet, Corey, and Vadim. And we did some business together at Small Syndications here and there. And then we decided that we worked together pretty well, so we formalized it into Fairwinds. And that really, that's how Fairwinds came about and started diverging from the real estate. I'm sorry, the residential real estate realm. And now I'm down to my last two single family houses. But we also have, 800 units of commercial, of multi-family. So it's and we're doing well because of the teamwork piece, so.

Nice. Very diverse background. It's funny cuz you said you're from Alabama, right? And I was gonna say, I, I can't hear it. I don't hear the, that southern twang until you said real estate. When you said real estate. It came out a little bit and I said, okay, there it is. There's the Alabama.

Okay, there it's. Let me, military kind of gets it outta you. Yeah. That pot of mixed, everybody is just all over the place.

Absolutely. I don't sound like I'm from New York that much until I say certain words like water and things like that. But it's, and even then, sometimes, not all the time, it doesn't always come out. So.

Sure.

You wanna get angry, it'll come out. That's just for every New York art thing. But, I. It's all good. Okay, so cool. So pretty diverse background. You started off doing the fix and flips right out in the Hampton Roads area. Actually you started off by buying that first property in 2007 in Jacksonville. So I was on recruiting duty around that same time and I had bought a house in Waynesboro, Virginia in 2007. So I just thought it was pretty funny. And with that one I became an accidental landlord because of course when I went to go sell it, That wasn't gonna happen. It went from, I bought it for $250 it was worth $302. About two months after I bought it, I was like, wow, this is amazing. And then boom, now it's worth $150,000. And I wound up short selling it later on for $157,000, which really stung. But it was because I, once I lost my renters, I couldn't get anybody else in there. I was lucky. Because my renter was a friend of mine who's also on recruiting duty. That particular area that I lived in was not a rental area like people were not, renting. If they wanted to rent, they'd go to Charlottesville. And they'd rent an apartment out there. Or one of the single family homes that are closer to town. But in Waynesboro, no, that was like, country and people just wanted to buy their home and relax. So it was like an impossible situation for me. So I definitely feel your pain there. I'm glad you were able to hold onto it, to recoup that value. Unfortunately was not able to do that, okay. Now as you were going on you said you were doing up to five houses in a month, and I gotta ask you, man especially as an active duty officer, how the heck were you managing to find the time? I know you said that eventually became too much, but even leading up to that, to even be at four three too, how did that look compared, when you had your day job as well?

So I was fortunate. Okay, so back up. So when I was a department head I wa well, I wanted command at sea, like it's the only thing I wanted in life. And we all know what we sign up. We think, we know when we sign up for military service, we think we know that we can handle all the The sacrifices that come along with it being deployed and not, and missing the birth of a son. And you're like, oh, I could do that. That's easy. And then it happens to you and then it changes your world. And so when my second son was born, when I was on deployment and all the things that came with it, my aspirations just died. And I decided that I wanted to be present for my family and to be there. So I. Designed the rest of my career such that I would be present for them, and which included going to this, it's like exo special mission, which is like a substandard, it's like the lowest round that you could go. It's still what upwardly be mobile in the Navy. So I volunteered to leave shore duty early and go to an aircraft carrier as the damage control assistant. Which is a mid-level job, but it I'll never make oh six, but I could have a good chance of making oh five, which I accidentally did. So I sidetracked my own career to be able to do that and to have time. And the aircraft carrier that I went to was, and dry dock it's a mid-life cycle refueling. So we were getting into working.

Which carrier?

The George washington.

Okay. Okay. So you were there after us. I was on Theodore Roosevelt during RCOH. Okay.

RCOH baby. Yep.

Yeah.

So were you in the, but it depends. RCOH is not the same thing. Were you there in the beginning or the end of RCOH?

The last year and a half of it. And then we got operational and I was one of the first people to qualify as OD on there and it and that made life kind of hell, when there's only a few of us.

Yeah. So you were actually working? I was there in the beginning and we were done.

Ah,

00 AM.

Setting up Conex boxes and.

Yep. Conex boxes and just sitting there putting everything in a layup and then you're going home at 11. So that's how I was able to get into all the big time real estate. Nice. And then the second carrier I went to as the Auxiliary's officer they were also in dry dock, and that was the last ship I was on.

Awesome. Awesome.

That's how I was, man. I just managed my own career to make sure that it was, Kind of dead ended to be able to.

No that's great. I wish I had the opportunity to experience what the beginning of RCOH looks, looks like. That's okay. When I got there, it was quite busy. But yeah by being able to gear your career that way you open up the door to have the time to take care of these other things. I feel like A lot of folks in the military, we get caught up in this mission first mentality and a lot of people do forget about the ones we leave behind at home, right? I know that having two daughters completely changed the trajectory of. How I want to, have my career go. It's the same reason why I said at 20 I'm done. I don't even wanna get looked at promotion, like I just want to be done. It. Putting your family at the forefront is also, that's a career sacrifice, right? We talk about the sacrifices we make on our family, but then you also make a career sacrifice by doing that as well. And you still have to sacrifice a lot of that time with your family, even with doing that. Definitely commend you for making the decision, based on what you wanted to do for your family. So that's amazing, man. A lot of people have a hard time. They struggle with that decision in doing that, you got up to the point where you were flipping, fixing and flipping five houses a month. Which is mind boggling to me while on active duty. But then you said, okay, this is becoming a bit much switched over to multi-family. What was it that was so enticing about multi-family versus, what you were doing?

Economies of scale. And that's all that really boils down to a hundred. Hundred hundred units per project. You can only, you can do like one to three per year and you're still like doing so much more business than you were doing five a month and a single closing in multi-family is a little bit more stressful than a single closing in single family, but you're also getting a hundred doors versus one.

That's huge. One of the best examples a buddy of mine told me when I was getting into a syndication with him was, when you look at it, if you have, a hundred units, right? Single family units and the time's coming around and you gotta replace the roof or the water heater goes out or whatever. All these different things that can happen. If you're replacing a roof on a hundred units, that's gonna be a hundred separate times that you're replacing a roof. And that's gonna cost way more than replacing the roof on one or two or three that add up to a hundred units. And he's it's just that much better. So when you talk about economies of scale, it's also what you're gonna save. In some of the costs that you save as well. It's not just the fact that yeah, you got a hundred units and they're all paying rent and which, which is gonna be much higher than if you just bought a single family. So of course there's a lot more stress the underwriting's a lot more difficult, there's a lot of things to factor in. But at the same time, like you said, the end product is a lot. It's a lot more numbers, right? A lot more zeros. Another good way to look at it too is that, you're just adding more zeros. You're doing the same thing. You're just adding more zeros to it, right? So more zeros make people happy. Alright, cool, man.

When evaluated, with the NOI instead of having to go out and look at all the other houses that have sold and see if they're comparable, you just look at, you just go through the T-12 and figure out what your NOI is, and then find out what the average cap rate is for around there. And then there you go. There's your evaluation.

Yep, a hundred percent, man. Awesome. So now you got together with your partners, right? They're all in the Navy as well, right?

Yes, except for Jaspreet. Jaspreet was a merchant.

Okay. Look close enough. And sometimes they spend a lot more time underway than we do.

Yeah.

That's definitely for sure. Okay, cool. So now how did you guys actually connect, that initial time and get together? Was it just a shared interest in real estate? Did you guys meet at a meetup? Like how did that look?

Yeah, so Jaspreet was a lender for me. And then Corey, Vadim and I were met up at meetups. Vadim is the only one that went straight into commercial. God bless him. I love the guy. I can't believe he did that. It takes a lot of balls for people to skip the residential side and just go straight into commercial, but he did it. He just got outta the Navy recently, about a year ago, and then Corey retired.

Nice. Nice. Okay. Yeah. Now you got started in real estate because you were, you said you were checking out bigger pockets, right?

Yeah. When I had my first house, it was such a bad experience with the whole loss of half the value. But then I noticed that they were still paying rent. We were cashing a little bit, like a $100 a month. And I saw the value of the house going up and the mortgage going down. I was like, Hey, this could be something I am my, I could do like this. I could do this three or four times and each one of these houses is gonna be worth $300,000 one day and that's a million dollars I could be done for life. And that's when I found bigger pockets and.

Nice.

Open them, my open the eyes up to everything.

That's fantastic. Now, okay, now you guys all came together and you formed Fairwinds, right? Now, what is it for you, like what specific markets do you guys attack and look at?

Every, most of everybody's still up in the Hampton Roads area, so we look up there. Okay. I live in Jacksonville, Florida now. Sree lives in San Francisco, but we don't really look at San Francisco for an investing area. And believe it or not, our biggest footprint is in Houston, Texas. We just happen to get out there into a property out in Houston and we haven't looked back ever since. So like 650 of our units are out in Houston. We've got another nice, got another 700 coming on board here pretty soon.

Awesome. Awesome. Good deal. When you put all of this together, obviously it takes, there, there's a lot of work that's involved, right? So especially while you're still on active duty. Where do you find your work-life balance while you're investing in multi-family?

Oh, goodness gracious. You have to ha it has to be part of a team. My skillset is way geared towards the acquisitions and underwriting piece of it. So that's mainly what I focus on. And then the other guys are very good at tech solutions investor relations, and Corey specifically with asset management. So it's a team balance that is set up specifically for our skillset so that our work-life balance can be better, because if I'm having fun doing what I'm doing, then. Then it's not really like work.

Oh man, I say that all the time. If you're enjoying what you do, can you really consider that work? That's awesome.

Yeah. Absolute facts.

Now what do you do? Okay. Cause I know. Even when you're enjoying what you're doing at a lot of times, you can, you have to deal with a lot of stress, right? Something goes wrong in a deal, or something happens and the cost of lumber skyrockets or there's a supply chain issue. So how do you deal with situations like that?

Medication.

Okay, let's edit that out. No, I'm kidding.

You're not gonna be able to be prepared for everything that life's gonna send you. Nobody could known that Covid was going to hit us. So what you can do is just make sure that your network is as robust as possible. That way when you do run into a problem, you generally know who to reach out to, to figure out your way around it. Houston's getting hit with insurance hikes a lot right now. But we do ha we, throughout the years we've developed a pretty strong network of insurance agents, so we have a lot of different options. There are different. Kind of solutions that you can go to for different problems such as like with the insurance, if we go through and do like a master lease option with a seller, then we can get brought on to their insurance program that's been in place and has better premiums than what we have to pay with getting a brand new insurance binder With construction, you guys just gotta know who's who in the zoo. General contractors, property managers usually have very good networks and general contractors as well, so they should be able to help you out. And it's just a go about going around shaking network trees until you figure out a solution for what's the, what the problem is at hand.

Yeah I think that ties into another thing I wanted to talk to you about and that's the teamwork aspect, right? Because obviously if you have the right people in the right place doing the right job that's gonna alleviate a lot of that stress that we're talking about, right? So there are things that are unexpected that are gonna happen, example, covid right? With what happened here. You can't really prepare for that and you can try to put some systems in place that are like, hey, if. Something crazy or act of God or act of nature. Something wants to happen, this is what we would do. But until something like that actually happens it's a lot, it's a lot easier to talk about it than to actually experience it. Knowing who's gonna do what in every situation is huge. Obviously you guys met through networking, right? And Jaspreet was one of your lenders on something, right? On a deal that you had. When it came to figuring out your roles, like I know you're doing the acquisition piece and the underwriting piece, and they're doing more investor relations and tech. So how did you guys figure out what roles were perfect for everybody on the team?

Trial and error. And that's what stinks about partnerships.

Okay. Yeah.

All trial and error. You can do all the due diligence in the entire world on people and you don't really know. What's what until the poop hits the fan and it sucks. Like you can go through and you can interview like a hundred different lawyers and they're all gonna tell you what you want to hear in those interviews. You can go talk to other people what's going on, but you don't know how they're gonna interact with you personally on any specific deal until you're in it to win it. And that's what that's my least favorite part about partnerships is figuring out is it a fit? But with us we have vine and Corey and I did deals specifically together before Fairwinds. And so we already knew our strengths and weaknesses. And then we, through talking to Jaspreet, we did. The same thing we do any other kind of partnership. When we bring in CPAs or attorneys or property managers, it's the same thing. We have what we call the dating period where we do a deal, maybe two together and figure out the way they work and then we'll formalize the actual partnership.

Okay. So that's fantastic, especially for the listeners right now that are thinking about, maybe getting to their first GP like this guy right here. That, it is good to have that dating period and figure out, where everybody works best, right? So that trial and error piece, I think, I feel like no matter what. You do, you're gonna have to do trial and error, right? To see what works best for the team. Cuz not everyone's gonna be in sync right away, right? You have to figure out what your strengths are what your weaknesses are, and then adjust from there, right? Everyone has their particular set of skills that they're really great at. And then they have the ones where, somebody else might be great at and you're not. And they can build you up and make up for that weakness that you have in that particular section. So that's fantastic, man. Okay, Jonathan. What type of CRM systems or software do you guys use that you absolutely can't live without?

We have syndication Pro, and it's been fantastic for us being able to track who's in individual deals, being able to send out emails to them. Our marketing team is Markham18, Vikram220, and he gets in there and he's able to do all these like magical skills and things like that, that I can never, ever do. I'm such a rock when it comes to tech solutions and but syndication pros really easy even for me to be able to use. So syndication pro, we can bring in other GP's, they can raise in their own silos. So they can piggyback off of us off of our subscription and they can keep their investors separate from ours. And it is just been a dream.

Nice. All right. So that's great. So now we got some good software to go look at. Now in terms of actually finding the deals, right? We talked about the markets that you guys are in. How do you go about finding the right deal?

All right. We've done it all. We've done wholesaler, daisy chains. We've done off market. We've done auctions. We've done brokered. My favorite is just a straight off market. I recently hired a, an associate director for deal sourcing. He's gonna be reaching out to all these different Not advertise properties that I identify off of our Yardi and co-star access. And she's gonna be trying to get us deals that way. Just straight to owner, straight to exactly who's who instead of having to source through deals that everybody on the places the planet has seen. Even these off market deals that are advertised on Facebook, that of course everybody's seeing at that point. So that's what he's gonna be doing.

The pocket deals that fell through the hole in the pocket, and now everybody can see 'em lying on the floor.

Yep.

Awesome. Okay. No that's great. So you're concentrating efforts on, having a team member that, that focuses solely on that and finding these deals. So that's really good to know. That's valuable because, a lot of people might be thinking, oh if I just, partner up with some folks and, we go out and we find a deal, or maybe we'll find something on LoopNet, or maybe we'll find something from a broker. And it's not as easy as it sounds on the surface, so it's good to know that you're, you have a whole dedicated team to that. And I think it's important for people to realize that, if you wanna get serious about this, you really need to dig down deep. It's not this easy thing. Especially getting into multifamily and I'm finding this out right now, trying to be a GP on my first deal as well, that it is not something that's just easily jumping into right now. Thank goodness. I've got some experience as an LP, right? So I've been through the process. I know what it looks like, but it's definitely a whole different world, man. Definitely.

Yeah. I love it. I absolutely love acquisition though. It's the thrill of the hunt.

All right, Jonathan, I'm gonna ask you one more thing before we go into the final round here. And this question's kind of a doozy as well, but I think I have an, a feeling that I know what your answer's gonna be. But it's a pretty simple question, but again, it's a doozy. What is your why?

Oh, like exactly what we were talking about. It's the family. It's improving their lives. I like being able to do this job and I'm sitting here on my computer and my kids are in the other room with my mom and dad. They're having a good time and just going through and making sure that their lives are better. At the same time, going through and making sure that we've got, we're improving the lives of our tenant base. It's all about improving the lives of the people around you. And through commercial real estate, I get the exposure of myself and the values that I hold upon other people's lives. And I can improve thousands of people, thousands of families while doing this. We can bring in joy to people's lives that are coming into some of our really cool short-term rentals are raising families in areas that need improvement. We just were under contract on a place out in San Antonio that had. Five shootings during the time that we were under contract on it. And the owners are absentee, absolutely absentee. And their mismanagement of that property actually caused the lenders to back out on it. We weren't able to close it, which really saddens me because I know all those tents are still stuck there getting ignored. And it's disappointing to say the least. There are big operators out there that don't care.

Yeah. I really respect that too. The fact that it's more than just the deal, right? It's more than just, the type of return you're gonna get, right? It's giving back to those that you're serving as well, right? Which, that's your tenants, right? Your renters treating them as, anybody else who'd wanna be treated. So I definitely respect, where you guys stand with that. That's awesome, man.

Thank you very much.

Awesome. Hey. Okay, so Jonathan, we're gonna go ahead and transition this now to the final round. It's where I'm gonna ask you the same four questions I ask everybody that comes on this show. And they're they, it helps us understand how you know in your head how you are in stressful situations, which I'm pretty sure I know how these are gonna go because you're just crushing it anyway. So if you're ready to go, we'll get this party started.

Let's go baby.

Let's do it. Okay. So Jonathan, what is the biggest mistake you've ever made in real estate?

Oh, goodness. I will say that my biggest mistake was I'd like to say it's my first house, the first single family flip that I made like actual investment. Oh man, I screwed up the ARV on it and I got stuck into it. It was costing like $4,000 a month for a long time, and I actually ended up losing like $50,000 on it, but at the same time, it was the first step. I actually jumped into it and it was such a big project for a first time investor that I got to a lot of speaking events and things like that. So it actually launched my career in the, in real estate. So it wasn't. Yes, it was a $50,000 loss. It was my first one. I'm surprised I'm still doing this. But at the same time, it was a double-edged or sweet, bittersweet pill to take in, then again, we also, in Fairwinds, we got into a deal that was too big for us too soon, and we ended up losing a little over a million dollars of EMB still feeling the effects of it a little bit. But that also taught us lessons on a little bit better underwriting. And then it taught us about ourselves, what we're good at, what we're not good at. So between, behind each failure is always lessons to be learned. And as long as you're learning those lessons, then there's no real failures.

That's super important to fail forward, right? Each failure is a step towards success. A hundred percent. Hey, thank you so much for your transparency on that as well, man that's definitely not easy stuff to talk about. And. A lot of times people will suffer a big loss like that, and then they walk away and they say, I, this is not for me. That happened to me with my first deal in 2007, right? I wound up walking away from real estate for years and what a mistake that was, right? I could have been so much further along than I am right now, but I let that first failure eat me alive. So that's why I'm glad, we can talk about things like this to show other people like hey, don't give up hope with that first mistake. Or with the next one, there's gonna be several mistakes that happen. You learn from them, you move on, you don't do it again. Yeah. Awesome man. Appreciate that. Okay next question of the final round, Jonathan, is what is something that you've learned that you wish you knew when you first got started?

Commercial real estate. Don't do the residential stuff. Just jump straight into it. Just zeroes. Go be your own. Go be your.

Jump passco. Collect your $200 and keep moving.

Exactly. Exactly. That's not necessarily true though. Everybody has their own niche, ev their own skillset, what they wanna accomplish. Residential real estate has a great place. It's easier to understand, it's easier to grasp. And therefore a little bit easier to raise money on sometimes. It depends. But for me it was it straight into commercial. I think commercial is a little bit easier to be part of a team as well, I like most of the people that we deal with. There's some real jerks, I'll say jerks in commercial real estate. There are in residential too, but but I like the professionalism that comes with commercial a little bit more.

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Okay this next question kind of ties into the last two and it's more helpful for our listeners as well. And that is Jonathan. Do you have any tips or tricks that you would recommend to someone that is just getting started out today?

All right.

Besides jumping straight into commercial real estate.

Yeah. I see. So it really is all about Networking and jumping in. I don't think that everybody needs to go through the guru training programs. It does. I didn't do it, but I can see where it would help as far as you put money into yourself, you've invested into your own career, now you gotta go make it happen. But those programs won't actually force you to jump in. So if you jump in and you learn. Through, hard knocks a school of hard knocks, then you learn lessons for life. So that would be my biggest thing is jump in if you're gonna do one of the training programs, do the training program while you've jumped in. So learn both ways.

That's fair. That's fair. I do encourage people to like, there are a lot of shams out there, but I always encourage people that, if you find a good. Coach that's really gonna push you, that's more value than anything, right? And you can learn from their mistakes, but also you are going to learn from your own mistakes as well. Like you said, school of hard knocks. Definitely. Obviously with some of the losses you were talking about you've paid for your doctorate in in real estate, right? So it's that's the type of education that you have to really. Understand that you're gonna probably have to deal with is you're gonna take some losses, but at the same time, With risk comes reward, right? There is no reward without risk. And any investment you get into, you're taking a risk, whether it's in the stock market or it's in real estate. At least with real estate, I know it's a tangible thing. You can touch it, feel it, smell it. Sometimes you don't wanna smell it. But those are the things that people are always gonna need a place to live, right? And that's why I love real estate so much. So definitely appreciate your answer to that. I do have one more question in the final round, and this is just an opinion-based question. And that is, do you have a favorite business investing or real estate related book or podcast or both?

So I really love Rocket Fuel by Gino Wickman. It it talks about, visionaries and like doers and very much so defined, like it hit me on the head, visionary kind of guy. And when it comes down to actually like doing things, then I, that's why we have Corey. But it teaches you it, it really taught me a lot of awareness, a lot of business awareness, and he puts it in such a way that's entertaining and very much so an aha kind of presentation about the book. So that's the way I recommend that book. It's great.

Awesome. Awesome. Definitely appreciate that. Rocket fuel, I'm gonna, I don't think I've had that one on my list yet, so I'm gonna have to add that to my list of books that I need to get, so definitely appreciate that. Okay, so Jonathan, that is it for the final round. You survived. Pat yourself on the back. Great job. Woo-hoo. But hey man this has been a real treat to really dig into your mind a little bit. Especially, while doing this as an active duty officer, I know from experience myself while investing in real estate while on active duty, it is not the easiest thing. So again, I commend you on that. But at the same time, the way you, with what you shared with us today with how to, divvy up your time and build a team and have that work-life balance. These are the important ingredients to living a fulfilling life while doing this. I genuinely really appreciate it. This was an awesome interview, man. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

All right, now I do have one more question for you before we get outta here because my listeners are sitting here saying, man, Jonathan's dropping some heat here. We really like what he's talking about. We wanna know more about him and his partners. So where can people find more information about you guys, about you, about Fairwinds and do you have a website, social media, anything like that you could share with us?

So all four of us are on LinkedIn and Facebook. You can also go to our websites, www.fwcinvestments.com. I'm @jonathanfwcinvestments.com. Reach out to me direct. That'd be great.

Awesome. I will make sure I have those links in the show notes to make it easy for everybody so you can just copy and paste or click away. Just don't do it while you're driving, please. Okay. Last thing I need is to know that somebody got hurt while listening to the average Joe Finances podcast, cuz you were in a rush to find out more about Jonathan. So don't do that. Okay. Hey, I just wanted to say again, Jonathan, thank you so much. This has been a real treat. And to my listeners, I want to thank all of you for joining me and our special guest, Jonathan New, on the Average Joe Finances Podcast. Go leave us a five star review and tell us what you liked about today's episode with Jonathan. Aloha from Hawaii and have a great rest of your day.