174. Investing in Uranium Mining for Carbon Free Power with John Cash

Hey, Welcome back to the Average Joe Finances Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Cavaggioni, and today's guest is John Cash. No, not Johnny Cash. John Cash. So John, super excited. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Hey, Mike, it's good to join you.

Yeah, absolutely. Now, he does sound like Johnny Cash if you think about it. So if you're listening to this podcast episode, don't get confused. But hey, I'm super excited to talk with you. I'd like to start things off the way I start every podcast episode, and we wanna know more about you. So if you could share a little bit about your background, share your story. Who is John Cash?

Yeah, you bet. So I grew up on a farm in Missouri. Very fortunately, I grew up close to a very good university the University of Missouri at rolla. It's now the school of Mines and Technology. And my junior year of high school, I had a really good opportunity to go to the university and they had a summer program where they introduced kids to each of the engineering program and geology in mining programs. And I went to that for a week and it was just absolutely blown away by the technology that was there at the university, the research they were doing in the programs. And so it was an easy choice to go there. It was less than an hour drive away from home, price, fantastic reputation so very easy choice. So when I got there, I was going to be a chemical engineer and signed up for that program. But they told me, Hey, not much scholarship money in our program. Check out geology. They're very well funded so I changed over to geology for a year and after I took the first class, I was absolutely hooked on geology. got to work outdoors. I loved physical science just wonderful program, great people, and I stuck with it and I haven't regretted it ever since. But got my geology and geophysics degrees, bachelor's and masters at rolla. And went on to work for some of the majors. Worked for Rio Tinto for just a bit, and also BHP exploring for uranium. And so I started off in uranium very early on in my career and it really is the only commodity I've ever worked. And so after the majors, I went to work for Rio Algom. They don't exist anymore. They sold off their assets, ultimately their assets along with me ended up with Cameco which is one of the major uranium producers globally. I worked for them for a number of years. Then back in 2007, I got a call from an old friend and asked me if I would come to work for Ur-Energy over in Wyoming. So I was excited about that because they were starting up a new mine. I had never had a chance to build out a new mine and build something and make it my own and put my fingerprint on it and so I jumped at that opportunity. And so I've been with Ur-Energy since 2007. First working in regulatory affairs later on moving into the CEO position in fact very recently this year. So it's been a wonderful ride. I've really enjoyed working in the uranium. It's challenging, but it's got a number of really unique facets compared to other commodities that make it really exciting. The technology of the national security implications some of the secrecy involved with it as well. It's a been a great commodity to be in, so it's been a good run.

Yeah, absolutely. So you came over to Ur-Energy to start off in the regulatory area and now recently becoming the CEO. So congratulations on that. That's fantastic. Thank you. But I think what's really fascinating is it, they were starting up a new mine and that's something that you really wanted to get into, right? This was back in oh seven and now you're the head person right now, you're running this company and so you've got to see guess all facets of it right. As you moved up. And it's interesting cause I've had other people on the show and we've talked about other, like precious metal mining and minerals and things like that. But never had anybody specifically about uranium which I think is very interesting. So from an investor standpoint, what is it actually how does somebody even invest in a commodity like Uranium?

It's a bit unique compared to some of the precious metals and base metals. A lot of the mining that occurs and the processing that occurs really is held by either private companies or state owned inter entities like out of Kazakhstan in Russia and out of France as well. There really is a very limited number of companies that you can invest in that are publicly traded. And there certainly, there are opportunities out there, but it's not like the gold or silver commodities where you've got hundreds of companies that you could invest in globally. You've got probably a few dozen miners. Or exploration companies that you can invest in, it's a pretty short list. And then when you move from those explorers and developers up into real miners, companies that have actually put pounds in the can and produced it is an incredibly small list. Just a small handful of companies out there that are publicly traded and have actual experience with mining. So I'm proud to say I worked for one of those few companies. We started back in 2006. I joined in 2007, but we got the facility permitted, constructed in, up and running very successfully, which put us in a very elite club global.

Yeah, absolutely. A very small group of people that are doing this, like you said. And I don't think a lot of people realize how important uranium mining is. I know after 20 years in the Navy, especially being on a nuclear powered aircraft carrier the importance of mining such assets. And you know how. It's funny because a lot of people don't think about certain things, in an aircraft carrier a nuclear powered aircraft carrier only has to get refueled every 25 years. And you know that, that's one of the interesting things. I got to spend some time on Theodore Roosevelt as it was doing this refuel overhaul process. And it's amazing because it was almost building a brand new ship again and it comes out of the shipyard and it's good for the next 25 years. That's crazy when you think about it, where, other ships in the Navy, they got to do refuelings at sea and all that. We could just keep going. The only fuel we're taking on is jet fuel, right? Very interesting stuff. Now, if, actually another piece of this that I think is super important that a lot of people might not think of is the national security piece about this, right? When you had mentioned those other areas that mine uranium, you had mentioned Kazakhstan, Russia, and now France. That that's not a lot of countries that are involved in the mining of uranium. And it's such a small number that those that do have an upper hand in certain aspects when it comes to national security. So why is it important that a company like Ur-Energy succeeds?

Yeah, I'll talk about two different aspects. I'll talk about national security, but I'll also mention the electric generation. A lot of people don't realize in the US that we are the largest producer of nuclear electric globally. More than France more than China. We are still number one when it comes to that arena.

Yeah. Is it france, like number two right now?

Yeah. I believe they're number two. China is knocking out the door. They're building out very quickly. But here in the US we still have 93 reactors that are churning out green energy every day. It's carbon free. Base load relatively low cost. And those reactors have been online for a number of years and people don't realize it. They produce about 20% of our electricity in this country, and about half of our green energy, our carbon free energy comes from nuclear. So when we look at just basic base load, electric generation, nuclear is a major contributor in the US and especially when you look at green. But when you look at national security as you mentioned, we have our nuclear navy that relies on nuclear power, and that's the number one consumer of uranium when it comes to national defense. It's not the weapons program, it's the nuclear navy that really consumes the bulk of the uranium and it provides such an incredible benefit to the navy. When you're at wartime, you don't wanna have to spend time going to refuel. You want to be able to get that ship, get those submarines out there to do what they need to do without having to come back to port and nuclear power allows them to go out for years, decades in fact, without having to come back to port to refuel. And it's a tremendous advantage that our nuclear navy has when they don't have to worry about that. So that's really important that we have that supply of uranium here in the us, not just for electric generation, but also for our nuclear navy and weapons programs. We hate to have those programs, but in the world we live in today we have a lot of foes that force us to have those programs. So we have to consider that. Unfortunately right now in the US we have very little mining that goes on, virtually none. And also the processing of uranium conversion and enrichment are the two steps post mining. Right now we have one conversion facility in Metropolis, Illinois. It's been, it's called ConverDyn it's been shut down since 2017. They are attempting to refurbish that now, and they're hoping to bring it on in spring of next year. But when it comes to enrichment, there is only one enrichment company in the US and it's for and owned. And we have no domestic enrichment at this time. So we've really allowed our infrastructure in the US to decay. And it's because, we have private industry in the US and we've been trying to compete with state-owned enterprises in Kazakhstan, in Russia, Uzbekistan, and even with the French, their nuclear industry is largely owned by the federal, their federal government who bails them out every time they get into trouble. And we don't have that luxury here. So when you're trying to compete with foreign government, Who really subsidize those programs because especially in from Russia's perspective, they're attempting to weaponize that energy supply. They get all the support in the world. And so it's been very difficult for us and Canada and Australia, the western world private companies to compete. So we've worked ourselves into a pretty difficult position right now, unfortunately.

Yeah, no that's all that's very interesting. And I just want to point something out like when throughout my time in the Navy, I actually learned the most about nuclear energy when I was a recruiter and I was working with the the navy nuclear recruiters and they would come out and do presentations. And I learned so much from that. And I was always telling people and my wife and kids, they were always fascinated by this, but I would tell them like, every time you see an aircraft carrier pulling in on a port that's two nuclear power plants right now that you're seeing go back and forth. Right now, you're not seeing the submarines coming in and out. But each time they're going by too, there, there's more nuclear power plants, right? So when you think about it, in all these major naval facilities, at any given time, you can have 20 plus nuclear power plants all in one spot. And the thing is like when people think, they get fearful about nuclear energy because of, everybody thinks back to Chernobyl and everything. But one of the things that I learned throughout time too was the, some of the reasons why stuff like that happened and the corners that were cut when Chernobyl was put together and, it wasn't properly built to cool the rods. And I don't wanna get too into the details or too into the weeds cause my listener's gonna be like, what the heck man, you lost me but it's just, it's interesting that you know it. Nuclear energy is so clean. Like you said, zero carbon, right? And it's just a great way and a high energy output, right? To be able to power not only our country, it I see in the future we're gonna probably have nuclear powered cars, right? When they're able to build a small enough way to make it work, right? And that's it. You're gonna little nuclear generators driving all over the place, right? And you'll never have to refuel the car for the life of the car. It'll be interest. Disposing of them. And car accidents might be a whole different story, but it's just I feel like, it's just a very efficient way to create energy and, You had brought up a couple very great points when you talk about how when it comes to uranium enrichment and how we've backed ourselves into a corner there. And it's important that, we pay attention to that and we see what's going on because with that being privately owned versus state owned or federally owned other countries it makes it more difficult for us to enrich our uranium. So mining, it's great. I'm glad that we have companies that do it, but the enrichment process is where, we really got to pay attention to what's going on. Now for somebody that wants to invest in a company like your energy what kind of benefits does, investing in a u uranium mining company provide for them?

Yeah, so if you're interested in the nuclear industry and the fuel cycle, again, there are very limited number of opportunities to invest because a lot of the companies are privately held i e not traded on the stock exchange, or they're owned by governments. And we're one of a small handful of uranium mining companies that's publicly traded. So if you do want exposure to the nuclear space, the nuclear. Again, we're one of us very small handful of companies that are a producing uranium mining company. We've got proven assets. We've produced nearly 3 million pounds of uranium since we started operations back in August of 2013. Great opportunity now. The industry is expanding very rapidly and I think the the nuclear thesis in especially in the mid to long term, is extremely strong. We've got China that's building 150 reactors over the next 15 years and they say they're on target to do it, and they might even expedite that and build them out quicker. And we've got countries all over the world that are announcing new builds France, Japan is interested in it. South Korea, Finland, England, France. Even here in the US we're building out reactors and it's really because countries really wanna become energy independent. Especially after Russia invaded Ukraine and they saw how reliant the world was on Russia for natural gas oil, but also uranium. Russia is by far the largest processor of uranium in the world, and they really hold the world hostage when it comes to conversion and enrichment. And so here in the US we're building out two reactors in Georgia. Bill Gates' Company, Tara Power, is looking to build out several small modular reactors, including one not too far from where I am at right now in Casper, Wyoming. They're looking at building one out toward the border of Wyoming and Utah and working on licensing of that right now. Man, just a tremendous period of growth because of that desire to be energy independent and also a recognition that while renewables are great and they have their place, They don't fill all of the check all the boxes when it comes to energy supply. So the world is recognizing we need nuclear base load because the sun doesn't always shine, the wind doesn't always blow. And so far we don't have a great way to store energy, but nuclear provides that great base load. So if people are looking to invest, Ur-Energy. We trade on the Toronto Exchange under URE and under the New York American under URG. So encourage people to check that out and check out our website as well, cause we've got a lot of investor information on there, including our public disclosure. So when you start exploring our space, you're gonna see very quickly. It's a very small space and we're glad to be a part of that.

Thank you for sharing that, John cause I was gonna ask you what your tickers were because, for those that are interested in investing in your company, that's a, so they know how to find you. But, there you brought up a bunch of things that I think we all need to pay attention to. And these are like the performance indicators that people should be watching when it comes to this industry specifically, is just the growth that's happening not only here in the United States, but worldwide. Like looking at what China's doing, look at what France is doing and even what Russia's doing too, all these companies that are growing and expanding on nuclear energy it's definitely something that you want to pay attention to, especially in an industry where It's tied not only to a lot of money, but it's tied to each one of those individual countries, national security, not just our own, but energy independence is one of the single most important pieces for any country to have, to add to their national security. You gave a great example, right? How, with Russia's invasion of Ukraine, how that has caused pretty much put most of the EU. As a hostage, right? And they, they got the fuel lines that are coming down that, they're like we're just gonna go ahead and cut this off. And now you're starting to see some dramatic increases in prices. Especially in the uk. There was huge, there lots of shortages, fuel shortages, everything. And so that's why this energy independence piece is super important for everybody to pay attention too. And why a a commodity like this is something that should be paid attention to. Especially if it's something, if you're looking to invest for something over the long haul that's gonna probably make you a lot of money in the future, this is probably a good thing to keep keep your eye on. Would you agree to that?

Yeah, absolutely. And again, the short term, I think there's some volatility because of Russia invading Ukraine. That still, that situation is working itself. There is legislation that's been proposed in the US to cut off that supply from Russia. Congress is hot and cold on that. They get cold on it because the utilities are desperate for that supply from Russia. There's really no alternate feed for the processing. We can mine a lot of it in the us but the processing, we are fairly limited right now. Yeah, it goes hot and cold in Congress because of that. But in the midterm to long term, again, the thesis is great. You've got so many people that are in the environmental community that for years were in opposition to anything related to nuclear, but they're beginning to realize that nuclear really is the answer and because of that opposition from environmental groups, it's, some of it's still there, there's still some groups that are in opposition, but a lot of groups are coming to say, Hey, We got to go there. It's a fantastic bridge until we get to the point where we can rely completely on other resources and storage of energy from carbon free sources. And so nuclear is the bridge. Yeah. And people are really beginning to recognize that.

I think, a lot of the folks that were scared of nuclear energy. And this stems back to the seventies, right? But a lot of the people that were afraid of it it's just because they didn't know, right? They always thought about nuclear waste needs to be stored and nuclear waste is, highly radioactive and dangerous, and, but, What I think what people are starting to realize is how long these nuclear these fuel rods last, right? Versus the small amount of waste that's left behind when it's done and the proper storage of it. How how little. That waste is compared to the impact of the carbon footprint. We leave by, let's say, coal fueled power plants oil burning power plants and things like that. When you look at. Zero carbon emission versus dropping megatons of carbon into the atmosphere. It's a huge difference, especially with where we're trying to go and heal what we've been doing to the planet over the lifetime of humanity. It's it's definitely something that should be considered, right? The amount of waste that's left behind is not as significant as what we put into the air and the stuff that we breathe, right? Yeah. And how important that is.

That's exactly right, Mike. And, you take an average person in the US and if you assume that they use nuclear power their entire life to generate every electron of electricity they need their entire lifetime. The amount of waste, nuclear waste that they will generate will fit inside of a Pepsi can. That's it, and that can be contained. It can be controlled, put aside into long-term storage. Stored very safely. You compare that to other industries that, especially where you're burning the fuel, that waste, where does it go? It gets spewed into the air and does the damage there. And you're also left with the combustion waste that a lot of times has heavy metals in it. And there, there are ash piles stored all across the US with Elvis heavy minerals and with nuclear, you don't have to worry about that. You containerize it and it can be stored. I've had the pleasure of going to Yucca Mountain and taking a tour there, and it's really unfortunate that the US is not pursuing that further because it is a safe place to store material. Most of the radionuclides in nuclear waste are relatively short-lived, and within 50 or a hundred years, a lot of that's decayed away and becomes inert. And what's left. Is relatively benign. It's weekly radioactive, and so it decays away fairly quickly and it's safe. And so there's a lot of fear mongering, unfortunately. That's really dictating our national policy and we've got to get away from that if we're really going to advance as a nation.

Yeah, absolutely. I like to look at. all information and the facts of everything. Instead of just going off of assumptions of what I hear other people say. And some of the things that I've learned about nuclear energy itself is that, you get more radiation from being out in the sun all day than people that work in a nuclear power plant get working on a reactor, right? You get more radiation from smoking a cigarette. Than people working in a reactor, you can get more radiation from eating a couple bananas Yeah. Than somebody working in a nuclear power plant. For those of you that don't know bananas are radioactive. Now you probably have to eat 10,000 of them in about 30 seconds to get any type of poisoning from it. But it is, it does have radioactive principles to it. And a lot of people just, you. Probably don't even know that. Yeah. So it's interesting there is a lot of fear mongering out there, but there's also a lot of great information out there. So I implore anybody that's listening right now, if this is something that you're interested in something that you might wanna invest in the future, just do your research and check it out. Go learn, watch some presentations, learn some facts about nuclear energy. I always thought it's a great way to provide energy. Again, my opinion. But I also got to learn a lot about it throughout my time in the Navy as well. So yeah. Very interesting stuff, John. I definitely appreciate it, and I appreciate having you on to be able to talk about these things because there's a lot of people out there that probably just don't understand. The importance of nuclear energy and why the uranium industry is important. Not only, for the future, but also for like our national security, like we talked about earlier. Energy independence is Probably the most important thing we can look at moving forward as a nation. And even as a world in general, like each country, the importance of being energy independent and not having to rely on outside sources. Really is it's a big deal. Absolutely.

Yeah, it is. And I was just, I could list a couple of references very quickly for your.

Absolutely.

To go to the IAEA, which is an international organization to go to their website. They have just tons of scientific papers that have been written about the industry. You can also go to the n ei the Nuclear Energy Institute. They are a trade organization, but again, on their website, just loaded with good data. And the last one would be the World Nuclear Association on their website. A tremendous library just full of documents about the entire fuel cycle. I go to it and reference it all the time. So three great resources there that your listeners can use.

All right, fantastic. There you have it. Great places to learn more about nuclear energy and the importance of it now so specifically to your energy can we talk about some numbers? Like what are Yeah, what are things looking like for your company right now? In regards to if somebody was interested in investing in it what kind of numbers are we looking.

Yeah, you bet. So we started production back in 2013 and since that time we've produced nearly 3 million pounds of uranium back in about 2018, 2019. The market reversed on us largely because of state-owned enterprises forcing the price down so they could capture market. So we, instead of continuing to develop the. We just continued to produce from areas that we were in, so our production rates declined and we allowed them to do that. But recently the market has been improving. So back in the fall of 2021, we started constructing and drilling again. And so to put ourselves in a better position to be able to ramp up production very quickly. As the market conditions improve and they continue to improve. In fact, in August of this year, we signed our first contract that we've had in quite some time with a major US utility to sell them 200,000 pounds of uranium per year for the next six years. And so we're very excited about that. We're getting ready to produce into that. And got to make a decision on that once we layer in more contracts. So we're working right now on layering in additional contracts. We're having conversations with major US utilities on a weekly basis to see what their interests are and Purchasing domestic uranium, they're telling us that they are recognizing that they need to buy more Western world uranium instead of relying on Russia and Kazakhstan. So they're looking to diversify their portfolio, and I'm very optimistic that before the end of this year, we'll sign up enough contracts to be able to justify a ramping up production at our Lost Creek plant. So our Lost Creek plant it's got a fantastic reputation of very low cost production. In fact, at times we've been in the $16 a pound C1 cash cost which is fantastic industry-wide, you can compare us to Cameco and even some of the government run mines in Kazakhstan when it comes to cash cost. So we're very proud of that and we believe we can get back to that. As we ramp back up, and it's been just a prolific producer at Lost Creek 90% Recoveries, which is setting the records for the industry long mine life of 14 more years even if we don't find any more pounds even if we don't explore anymore, which I think is very unlikely. And then beyond that, our second mine is called Shirley Basin. It has all of the licenses and major permits. We need to construct it out and to put it into production, so we're very excited about that. Because it's really the birthplace of In situ uranium mining in the US and I should back up and explain. We are an In situ miner, which means we don't dig a hole. What we do is we drill wells. And we inject water, oxygen, and baking soda into the ozone that dissolves the uranium, and we simply pump it out with another well. And so if you were to look at our mine site, it's covered with grass. It's got deer, elk grazing in it. And so you can hardly tell we're even there. And so it's a great technology to use as a very light footprint. But Shirley Basin which is our second project, we believe that's the birthplace of In situ Mining in the US back in 1963. And so we're looking to reopen that mine as an In situ mine. and produce upwards of a million pounds per year there, plus lost creek million pounds there. That puts us up to 2 million pounds a year of production for our company. Economies of scale are important and we're looking forward to ramping those both up. Get to that great economies of scale, drive down our costs so we can be very profitable for our shareholders. So just an exciting time for your energy as we work toward ramping up and making that decision.

Yeah, John that's fantastic. And thank you for describing what In situ Mining is because a lot of people when they think about mining and they think about just Digging out and drilling and creating these caverns and caves and going out there and mining or, you could see how little of a impact the In situ mining had and also by doing it this way too, the cost is much lower. Because now you're not having to create these structures to uphold the earth while you're trying to mine or Right. I think that's huge. And you talked about that a little bit too, when you were talking about how, $16 a pound, right? One of the lowest in the industry. And that, that particular mine has, you said a 14 year life still just with what you've. Explored, that's not even exploring more. So that's amazing. And estimating 2 million pounds a year that's gonna be huge. And so this is all stuff that's important for any investor that's looking at your company. To understand what some of these KPIs are, right? some of the things they should be looking for growth in this particular industry. And we could see pretty clearly here you've got a good strategy and plan put in place for continued growth. And everything that you're doing right now, especially with the conversations you're having with other major US energy players, right? That's gonna be huge.

Yeah. And we've got a great cash position as well. Our last quarterly report that came out, we reported 42 million of cash in the bank. We've also got a fantastic inventory, most of which we produced and we can convert that inventory into cash if we need to do so in the future.

Awesome.

About 324,000 pounds of uranium that we can sell to the US government or to a utility. So yeah, we've got great cash, great inventory, and really not much standing in our way right now to getting back into full production. We just need to layer in those contracts and that's my number one objective between now and the end of the.

It's always good to invest in a company that has cash reserves and is cash positive. Definitely something else to chew on and to think about. John, this is, this has been fascinating. I feel like I already knew a good deal about nuclear energy, but, learning about the mining process is just something that's very interesting. And then, learning how you guys put everything together and how you're doing in In situ mining is also awesome. The fact that, when you think about nuclear energy, everybody, again, you got the fear mongering that happens out there, but even in your mining practices, like you said, you've got in the basin, you would even realize that there was mines there because it's, you got wells and you've still got elk and everything. Just grazing and just living their life and not affected by what you're doing. The other piece of that too is, when you think about the actual In situ mining itself, the way that you're extracting their uranium is also very organic as well. And not poisoning the land or anything by using water and baking soda. Just natural resources that you can use to pull out natural resources. So that's definitely something to to think about as well. You're not like, blowing holes in the ground and except for the mine itself, right? But you're not having to like, blow up the earth and and get your pieces out. So that's fantastic. I'd like to transition this into something that I call the final round, and this will help give our listeners a better idea about you in particular, John, and how you react under pressure or when you're in a tough spot. and just give her, give us a better idea of like how your mind works when it comes to business in general. So if you're ready to go we'll get that party started.

All right, let's go.

All right, fantastic. John, the first question I want to ask you for the final round is, what's the biggest mistake you've ever made in business?

Oh, boy. That's a tough one. I've only worked in one commodity my entire. And I've always questioned, was that a mistake or not? I think I've had great opportunity in the uranium space, but I've really never worked gold, copper, silver, a lot of other things that my classmates have worked in. And so I think fortunately I've been able to advance in uranium, but absent that, making advancement in my profession. Sticking with just one commodity, I think could have been very challenging. And sometimes looking back I would think, wow, maybe I should have diversified a little bit more in my experience. And if there are any young people out there listening, I would encourage you. Diversity in your education, diversity in your career choices can really lead you to bigger and better things. Because if you stick with one thing, you can very easily get pigeonholed into that. So I think that's been a challenge to me in my career.

True words of wisdom right there, John. And I appreciate the transparency. So this next question kind of ties into that and it's what is something that you've learned that you wish you knew when you first started?

Communications in college and high school, I was not a good communicator. I'm pr, I'm pretty introverted, and especially my writing skills were not that great. I didn't focus on them. I wanted to be a scientist and I didn't think, hey, a scientist really needed those communication skills. Absolutely and again, I would encourage any of your young listeners out there, communication needs to be a very high priority in your education. Your writing skills, you need to work on those your entire career. Never stop. I'm 50 years old, and I can tell you, I promise you, every day I'm working on my writing skills. My verbal skills, communication is all critical. So we encourage people to, to work on that. It really will help pay off in spades as you develop your career.

Yeah, no, that that's a very great point because, even no matter what you do, whether it's real estate investing or whatever field you're in, whatever you're doing to build your wealth, communication is such an important factor, no matter what your career field is. So I definitely I second that motion . So yeah definitely that perspective.

People ask me, what do you do for your job? And my answer is, I communicate I communicate with shareholders,, I communicate with investors, I communicate with people who buy our product. It's all about communication. So that's what I do for a living. I communicate.

Yeah. Thank you for that, John. I appreciate it. The next question of the final round also ties into all that and it's do you have any tips or tricks that you would recommend to someone that is just getting started out today?

Ask questions. I can remember early on in my career, I was probably pretty annoying to some of the older guys around. But when I broke into the INU industry I just was relentless in trying to learn as much as I could. So ask questions. Don't just go about your day-to-day doing your job, learn every facet of it. Ask questions of the guys that have, and the ladies that have got the gray hairs. They know they've been there before and they can teach you an awful lot. So ask a lot of questions. Be a student of whatever it is you're learning, whether that be pharmaceuticals or mining or teaching a lawyer, it doesn't matter. Be a student and learn as much as you possibly can.

I absolutely love that answer, John. I consider myself a student in everything that I do. I'm always trying to learn something new. And I know my listeners are the same way. That's why they listen to this show because they get to hear some fantastic speakers like you, talk about something different, and it's really fascinating that my podcast in particular we talk about financial freedom and all the different ways to build that, but every now and then we have, we get something special like this where you get to learn something a little bit different and why it's important for other aspects besides financial freedom, but like what we talked about today. Why energy independence is so important for national security and then how you can invest in something like that and still work on your goal towards financial freedom. So I think that's really awesome. So the final question I have for you, John, and this is co completely different than all the rest of the questions I asked you. It's more of an opinion based one, but do you have a favorite business investing or real estate related book or podcast or both?

Oh boy, that's a tough one. I don't really have a favorite podcast I really like reading news and not just US based news. I really like going to global sources on news. I enjoy the different perspective. We get away from some of the politics here in the US. So I love going out BBC news, Yahoo News, those news agencies that really reach out and grab stories from around the world. think here in the US we get too focused on our local. Which is unfortunately too driven by politics. So when I look at investing, making decisions there, I want to know the whole story and getting just beyond the us especially when I'm looking at the thesis behind a particular industry. Think it's important to get out and read all of the news that's available globally for that particular industry.

Yeah. No I definitely appreciate that. And I think that's a big theme of this particular interview that we've had is, just going out and researching and learning on your own, besides relying on opinion pieces, go out and learn the actual facts. And I feel like, as people start to do that, they're starting to realize, Nuclear energy is a lot safer than they thought it was, and a lot cleaner, probably the cleanest energy source out there. Yeah, definitely appreciate that. I appreciate this conversation. It's been phenomenal. I learned a lot just having this short conversation with you. But I do have one more question for you. That was it for the final round, but this is the most important question of all because those that were listening and hey, we really like what John's talking about here. We really like Ur-Energy and everything that they're doing. And it is something that we wanna know more about and learn more about. So where can people find more information about you and your energy? Do you have a website you could share with us? Social media, anything like that?

Yeah, you bet. First and foremost would be our website because it has so much information on it, including we have a video on there that shows how In situ mining works but the address is www.ur-energy.com and you can also find us on LinkedIn as well. Just do a search for Ur-Energy. We're there and, but yeah, our website would be the primary source to go is a well-developed website with all kinds of technical information and financial information, as well as disclosures to the various markets that we trade on. So we are an open book and so by reading that website, you're gonna learn everything there is to know about.

All right, fantastic. So I'll make sure I have that link in the show notes as well as your LinkedIn link as well. It'll be easy for my listeners. You can just copy and paste or click away. Just don't do it while you're driving. John, this was a real treat. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Oh, thank you for the time. It's been a lot of fun.

Absolutely. And hey, to my listeners, thank you so much for joining me and our special guest, John Cash, on the Average Joe Finances podcast. Go leave us a five-star review and tell us what you liked about today's episode with John. Aloha from Hawaii and have a great rest of your day.