119. Modern Alternative Investments for High Returns with Stefan von Imhof

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Average Joe Finances Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Cavaggioni and today's guest is Stefan von Imhof and Stefan, I'm really excited to talk to you today about your company Alts, and also, just some of the great accomplishments you've had leading up to starting this and just the pre-recorded conversation that we had was super awesome. And I'm really genuinely excited to have this conversation with you today. So welcome to the show.

Thanks Mike. Great to be here, man.

Yeah. Awesome. Hey, so the very first question I want to ask you is the same question I asked every guest that comes on the show and we wanna know about you. So could you share a little bit about yourself and share your story? How did this all get started for you?

Sure. I spent a lot of years in Santa Barbara, California working at various Tech Companies. I came up through a couple of companies you may have heard of one was called Citrix, which was kinda like zoom before zoom was cool. Way ahead of its time. Another was a company called lynda.com and then I worked for a data company called HG Insights and learned product, right? So I was a product manager and then had a product later at a company called flippa.com. And while I was at Flippa I, this was during the, the COVID pandemic and I was living in Melbourne Australia at the time. Melbourne had a pretty strict lockdown during the 2020 like many cities, but it was particularly strict. And so there was basically nothing better for me to do on the weekends for about four straight months cause we were locked down. So I just started writing, I've always loved writing and they say write what you know about. So at the time I started this newsletter was the alternative assets newsletter. And that was focused on one of the biggest and most underrated, I think even to this day, alternative investments out there, which is, websites, content websites. And I know Mike, you've got a little bit of experience with this, so I'd love to chat about it more, not a lot of people really understand how great it is to invest in content websites. But it has had a product, the flippa, but for me, it was like wanna tell the world about this. So I started this newsletter. It was really focused on alternative investments, but with a focus on, on content websites and e-commerce, and that kind of thing. And a few months after writing this one of the newsletter subscribers, this guy Wyatt, who ended up becoming my co-founder he had his own newsletter, right? So he was writing about alternative investments as well, except he was coming at it from the angle of like collectables and sports cards, memorabilia, like books and comic books, and a lot of like other areas, which I didn't really have any expertise in, but I have a lot of interest in. So we were we had our own newsletters. We were both fans of each other and we're competing a little bit. I just rang him up one day. I'm like, Hey man I'm a fan of you, you're a fan of me. What do you say? We don't compete with each other let's join forces and see if we can build something special. And we never met in person and but that was okay. And so he was like, yeah, let's do it. So we'd been working together ever since. And so Alts was born in January 1st, 2021. And we've been working together ever since.

Wow. That's pretty amazing. That's just one of the beautiful things about technology today. When we talk about how you've never met your partner in person, and you were able to put together, this newsletter that you created called Alts. And I'd like to talk a little bit more about that because we were talking before I hit the record button and you had just mentioned it just now, too about, sports memorabilia, comic books, records, different things like that. And I remember, I asked you before, Hey for alternative investments, like what kind of alternative investments have we talked about? Is it real estate or something like that? And you were like, no, man it's this stuff. So can we go into that a little bit, just into a little bit more detail? What kind of alternative investments do you invest in?

Do we invest in or do we cover? Two very different things

That you cover and also yeah that you invest in yourself

Sure. Or through the fund, we'll definitely get into that. So yeah, we made a choice early on do we want to go tall or do we want to go wide? Do we wanna focus on one or two like specific asset classes that we love the most? Or do we wanna just go. And as wide as possible and early on, we made that decision. Let's go as wide as possible, because there's so much interesting stuff happening right now. So many different tailwinds that converging and it's all coming together in this, beautiful like world of investing right now. There's so much to invest in. There's so many new opportunities that were never available before. This is due to a combination of like technology regulation, right? Reggae was like a big driver of this just innovation and a lot of the rise of retail investing, I think, plays into this as well. And so we saw all this happening and was like, wow, this is really amazing. We've got all of these new asset classes spinning up all of a sudden, and some of them are like, older and have more legacy, like data and like understanding, so like wine, artwork, real estate, for sure. These are like the old alts. But then you've also got all of this new stuff coming up, sports memorabilia, for example, video games, comic books, stuff like music rights, like stuff that websites, for example, It's not that no one's really talking about. And no, one's really doing the hard work to understand these markets. So that's what we decided to do. So we decided to do the analysis on the markets that no one else was looking at. No one else was touching and larger, hedge funds and stuff. It was just like, they don't, it wouldn't even consider investing in this stuff. Yeah, that's basically like how we got started and, as far as like to answer your question, if it isn't a stock, like we care about it, right? Like we just go as wide as possible. We've covered all sorts of different topics. Some are more serious than others. I actually happen to some of the fun stuff, right? Like I love learning about like the guy with the world's largest Lego collection or the guy with the world's most valuable hot wheel collection or how to buy an island like, that stuff's just really interesting to me. We're probably not gonna invest in it ourselves or through the ultimate fund, but it's really interesting to just understand these markets and explore them like other people just aren't doing so yeah, thereit is.

Awesome. So what would you say is probably one of the coolest things that the fund has invested in?

Oh, that's an easy one. So a week ago we just bought the number two pressing of the Beatles white album. This is a really big deal for me. I'm a huge music fan. Absolutely a Beatles fan and to buy some, a vinyl record like this for for me, it's like super, just exciting. We don't know exactly who owned it. We don't know which Beatle owned it. We do know that it's a number two pressing, which basically means the the first pressing is basically given to the founding member, the Beatle members, the second pressing is given to their family members to folks that like worked on like the recording. We don't have the exact Providence on this record, but we do know it's number two, it's a very early copy of the white album. It goes way, yeah, super exciting. And again, this is the kind of stuff that like, as a music fan, it's just, it's thrilling for me. We've bought some comic books we've bought original Daredevil sealed, graded Daredevil comic book. We've bought action figures. So through the fun we've bought sealed star wars action figures. Again, like this is the kind of stuff that just gets ignored by like larger funds and even like alpha seeking investors, but this is where the alpha is found. It's in this stuff that like no one else is looking at, no one else is talking about. So yeah, it's super exciting to put some, small institutional capital into this stuff.

Yeah. I mean, that's really cool Stefan and then I don't know if it's you're going off of what in my background, but you caught my attention when you said the Star Wars figures. Yeah. That's really cool. Especially for someone like me, who's like a, not, like a geek or a nerd or whatever, when it comes to this stuff I really love Star Wars and everything Star Wars. And this is something like if I wasn't investing in real estate, this is something else that is an opportunity to get involved in investing in something, besides just letting my money sit and not do anything. So you could still do something where you're investing in your passion. Something that you enjoy, that you're passionate about. So I'm passionate about real estate. So I focus on that, but at the same time, this is still something else that, I could possibly look into for an alternative investment just to, to diversify my portfolio a bit more and also own a piece of something that is super cool that I enjoy, for the people that are listening right now, like this is like a great option for somebody that's not too sure what they wanna invest in, but they have a passion for something like maybe comics or things like that. That's really neat. And I have a lot of friends who are big comic book guys I'm sure when I share this with them, they're gonna be like, oh, this is super cool. I wanna talk to Stefan about this. Yeah, man. So you've got this history, right? So working at several different tech companies including being the head of product at Flippa and I just wanna point out something real quick, because I thought that was really cool when I was reading up on your background because I've actually flipped websites on Flippa before, too. And I talked about it on my blog and I think I did a podcast awesome episode on it because it's just it's it was just something that was another opportunity for me to build on something that I enjoyed doing. I'm not really the greatest web developer, but I was able to build a pretty mean Shopify store. Nice. And then get it posted up there in Flippa and then flip it a couple months later for about six times what I put into it. So.

Awesome. That's the way to do it, man. All right. I love it. That's why I love to hear. That's great.

Yeah. So that's really awesome, man. But just looking at your background, like you've got like this great background for creating a fund like this, to go down this alternative route. And I, one of the things that I thought was super neat too, is how, your partner, like the two of you are competitors at first. But instead of butting heads and going at each other, you guys said, Hey, let's combine forces, were both into these different types of alternative investments, you're more over here in comic books and sports memorbilia and everything like that. You're more on the tech side. So combining forces made you guys almost an unstoppable force right now.

It's pretty wild. What's interesting is that we're actually like really different, right? So like I come from entrepreneurship and yeah, that's great. Cause I come from like product to tech my partner Wyatt, he comes from he has a really interesting background actually comes from finance. He also has a military in his background as well. And he is an entrepreneur as well.

Sounds like me. Awesome.

yeah, that's right. You in the Navy. That's right. Yeah. It's really, it's a great mix because he brings like a rigid, like militaristic, like cadence to the company. And, but at the same time, like I bring that like loosey goosey look, we're just gonna try things, throw things against the wall and see what sticks. We don't need a document for everything. And so we're very different people, but I actually think that's what makes us great as a team. If someone's too close to you, like too similar, it just, I don't think it works as well. I think you, you really want co-founders to have different strengths and weaknesses. So like I'm not good at some things he's picks up the slack where I'm not great and vice versa. But yeah, it's pretty fascinating, especially cuz so I live in Australia, he lives in Spain. We actually only met for the first time in real last month. We've been working together for 16 months. We raised money together, raised the preceded round together, raised the alts one fun together, started the business together of course, 16 months of working together. And like up until last month, I couldn't say how tall he was. It's pretty wild. I was lucky enough to, yeah, lucky enough to go and visit him and his wife in Spain last month. And it was very very good to finally meet in person. But yeah.

What part of Spain?

He lives? South of Valencia, very nice place. Yeah.

Yeah. So I've been to Port De Mallorca and Florida Spain. Yeah. Obviously being in the Navy, road is a very popular destination for us. And then. Port De Mallorca is a lot of times the Navy ships pull in over there and yeah. Oh, that's really awesome, man. Yeah. So you guys have been working together for 16 months, only met for the first time last month and, What I think is really awesome about the way you're describing your business relationship with each other is that you're more of like the creative thinker and let's throw this idea out there and see what sticks and he's more of the process and procedures guy. That's what it sounds like to me. And it's funny because I was just at a conference back in March and one of the breakout sessions, they were talking about that. Like you have the perfect mixture for a partnership is to have two opposite individuals one that compliments each other's weaknesses and strengths. That's pretty interesting. With that being said, especially with the distance between you guys how has that been more of a benefit to you or actually is the distance of benefit because of the fact that you guys aren't working together all the time and that you guys have this distance. Do you think that benefits you, or is that something that you think wouldn't matter if you guys were in person together?

I think for the size we're at we have six full-time employees and about 12 or 13 part-time contractors, contributors, analysts that kind of thing. So I think for the size we're at, it's doesn't hurt nor help necessarily one direction or the other. There's certainly pros and cons. The cons are obvious. The cons are you miss a lot of the serendipitous water cooler conversations and just ideation sessions. It was so great to have that in person last month and this month as well I'm in Europe right now. But you miss that, being remote especially being in Australia, man, I love Australia to death, but it's a tough country to communicate with the rest of the world from a time zone perspective. So I think that cons are definitely like obvious. On the pro side, I think one thing I've noticed is we don't waste each other's time. You know how there's a lot of wasted meetings when everyone's in the office together, or if they're in the same time zone or placed together.

Oh yeah. I've told you I've been 20 years in the Navy. Yes. I know exactly what that is.

Yeah, so it's we don't have that. Like we come into every meeting, we don't waste each other's time. There's a strict agenda. There's very little time for just goofing around and that's, there's something lost with that, but is also a lot gained. We just, we rip through our items and here's what we're working on and communication's key and it's tough. I'm not gonna lie. Like it's really tough, but it's fine for now. I think as we grow for, if we continue to grow, like we have. I think, it's, it gets pretty tough. I think, to run a company that's totally distributed and it feels weird saying this because again, I used to work at Citrix, I love remote work. We're both Americans, we're both living outside of the US just because that's the beauty of the world today. You can do that work remotely. But it's not easy and it's not perfect. There's a lot of, it's tough. It can be tough. And I think as you get bigger, it gets even tougher. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. But for now we're doing good.

No that's great. And actually, I want to ask you about that a little bit too, touching on the living outside of the United States, being an expat and everything. Cuz it's something that actually my wife and I have considered in the past, we've talked about it several times. We live in Hawaii right now. We've lived here for four years and we've talked about, Hey, I'm retiring from the Navy this year and I've got all these other things going on, what do you think about us? Picking up and moving, overseas. And so actually Spain was one place where we were looking at. We were also looking at Greece. We Portugal, Cypress, everyone's moving. That's where everyone Portugal actually at the top of the list for a while. And that's because of another social media group that we follow called Our Rich Journey. We've been following them for a long time and, they keep talking about, Portugal and when they move there and everything, and that's been really up there, but then it's moved around. Cause my sister has family in Greece and everything, and I have family in Italy, so there's a lot of different factors that, that go into that. I don't know. It's still something we're considering, but I wanted to ask you because there's other people I know and people that listen to my show that are considering that as an option as well. Hey, once they get themselves to a comfortable spot, Picking up moving overseas, but they wanna continue to do what they're doing, back in the states. So what are some of the challenges that you have found, especially cuz your company's a US lead company, right?

Yeah. Where US domicile company. Yes.

Yeah. So what kind of challenges do you face you and your partner face with him being in Spain, you being in Australia, what kind of challenges do you guys face running this company in the United States from overseas?

The only real challenge is the time zones, honestly. So like for me moving to Australia was, so my wife is from Australia. So it was, moving here was family driven and cultural driven and all that. But Australia's also a very easy country to move to. It's like the culture's very similar to the United States. Coming from the US that is culture's very similar. They speak English or the variation of it, it's it's a pretty easy country to live in for sure. And so none of that's not a problem at all. I think, being an expat in some countries, I think wifi can be an issue sometimes and stuff like that depends on where you live but the big thing with Australia is just the time zone. It is just this rough, there's just no other way around it. It's always the wrong time, right? Like it's never good. Like your morning is there night, your night is there morning, the overlap is a few hours in the summer and maybe five, seven hours in the winter, which sounds like a lot, but it's not. And yeah, it's other than that, it's a great place to live, work remotely. it's really no problem having a US domiciled country and working from Australia. But yeah, it's, I like, like I said, I love the country at a death, but the time there's nothing you'll ever be able to do about the time zone and it's, it does make things pretty tough.

Not unless you work nights, right?

Yeah. You gotta choose. You have to choose you either wake up early or you go to bed late. There is no other option. You have to do one of those two days.

To run a company back in the states. Another place that we we were looking at too, was New Zealand so it'd be close to that as well, but maybe, actually, maybe even a little further with the time zone difference too.

New Zealand's a little better, not much. So part of that, I mean that part of the world, man, it's a great part of the world, but you're just, no, you're not near anything or anyone, so yeah.

So how long have you lived in Australia now?

So I've lived there for about three years. We live in Melbourne, Australia.

So are you like more in the city? Like closer to the city or like in Melbourne?

Yeah we're in Melbourne. We we live right by the MCG which is Melbourne Cricket Ground, which is an enormous stadium. And I dunno if you've ever seen like Aussie Rolls football is that ring bell? Have you ever seen that sport?

No.

Oh man. Oh, it's wild. That's a great one to watch at the stadium and then yeah, good cricket matches and yeah, great city. I love Melbourne. I think it's a wonderful city a little on the expensive side, nothing you can do about that, But the US dollar is favorable to the Aussie dollar right now, so that's good. But yeah. Great city, great people. Great country. Great food, good weather.

So what about, so is it true, like in, this is just a personal question for me. So is it true like in Australia, like every little creature there is trying to kill you? I hear about all these things with the spiders, the scorpions, the snakes.

Oh yeah.

Everything, man.

Yeah. Were on, we were on Kangaroo Islands which is off the coast of South Australia and it's exactly what it sounds like. Wild full of kangaroos and wow. So yeah, I was gonna say though we had a run in with a spider my wife put on her shirt and she felt something on her abdomen. And she's what is that? And she's oh my God. And it just crawled into her shirt in the middle of the night. She put it on and thankfully didn't bite her because we Googled it. We killed it immediately and then we took a picture of it and it was definitely a, it was a red back, which is definitely poisonous and absolutely dangerous. And we were in the middle of middle of nowhere. Kangaroo Island is wild. You're out, you're just, that's wild Australia, for sure. And if something happened, it wouldn't be a good situation. Luckily nothing happened. But that's our little Australia scare story, so there you go.

Wow. Wow. Yeah. That's yeah. Even the snails too. Those cone snails, you gotta watch out for those man and the little so that's crazy, man. Yeah. So.

The people are friendly. You're never gonna get hurt by the people. There's no shooting and stuff, but the it's the little also gets you. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Oh man. I look at what we have here in Hawaii. We don't have any snakes. We don't have any of that stuff, but what we have big nasty centipedes, man. They are and their bites are really rough, but they won't kill you. Maybe if you get a bit enough times cuz they, they are toxin, they have toxins, but their bite is one of the worst bites. You like bug bites, you can get pain wise. But I look at that compared to Australia and I'm like, I'll take the centipedes. That's fine.

You also have jellyfish. I have to say, I my uncle used to live in Oahu and

oh, the man of wars.

Yeah. And my dad got stung by this jellyfish that I've never heard him scream so loud in his life. I was like a kid. I was, I can still hear it to this day just thinking about it. So yeah. You got some jellyfish there too.

Yeah. Especially the Portuguese man of wars, man. If one of those tentacles get on you. You're gonna feel it. You're gonna feel it very fast. And if enough tentacles get on you, that, that could be it, that could be the end of the game. They're pretty nasty, but the worst part is because like, all is like this balloon hanging outta the water. And. Their tentacles are super long. So you could see it like off the coast and their tentacles could be on the beach. And there's a lot of times too, where like a tentacle washes up on the beach and it's not even connected to it anymore. And you step on it. Oh that's a bad day. that's a bad day. But yeah, man. Oh that's crazy. That's crazy. All right. So enough of that. I want to go in, I wanna transition this into something that we started called the final round. It's where I'm gonna ask you four questions that are hard hitting three questions that are hard hitting more of the fourth one's more of a opinion question. But this is to get to know you a little bit more and just, your in your journey to get to where you're at today. So if you're ready, we'll we'll get this party started.

Let's do it.

Okay. Awesome. All right, Stefan so first question is, this is a doozy, what's the biggest mistake you've ever made?

Biggest mistake I ever made was probably in the run up to the 2007 and the run up to the the financial crisis. I was over leveraged like everyone else. I had a business at the time. I was an entrepreneur. I ran a video game business. And we were just, like at so many other people in America and all over the world, truly we just got ahead of ourselves. We were pretty over leveraged. And so what that meant for us and my business was we basically bought too much inventory and we were selling video games and accessories and repair parts and stuff like that. That was our shtick. And one thing I didn't realize at the time was that the depreciation on video games is the worst in the world, aside from cars. It's let's say you drive,

Cars aren't too bad right now in this post apocalyptic environment.

Cars are great now. Absolutely. But back then, but yeah, video games, it's as soon as you break the seal, they just, they, the price gets cut in half. And even if you don't break the seal, that's the thing. Even you don't break the seal. They, they just starts appreciating year after year. Now the irony is, video games is one of the alternative asset classes that we cover. And if you wait long enough and you don't break the seal, it's a really good game you might be in really good shape, but it'll take 20 years. But the, the short term depreciation that hurt us really bad. And so we had to take a big write off in 2000. A lot of people went through hell in 2008 and we were among them. So lesson learned, but financially speaking that I was a big, that was a big mistake for sure. But I was young, we recovered, it's all good.

Making those kind of mistakes when you're younger is definitely better than to do it when you're a little bit older and you don't have the time to recover from that. My next question kind of ties into this, right? So it's what is something that you've learned that you wish you knew when you first started?

Started in what would be my follow up question. Started entrepreneurial journey or

Started your entrepreneurial journey and your own personal journey to building your wealth.

I would say. This is, it sounds so cliche, but like the power of compounding, and not just compounding in a strict financial sense, but the power of compounding efforts and ideas, right? Like they always say the best time to plant a tree is yesterday, right? The second best is today. The best time to start investing is yesterday. The second best is today. And obviously that's a fact, like we all know this. It's nothing new. But it there's no one in the world. No one in the world who doesn't wish that they started investing just a little bit earlier. You know what I mean? It's like just an extra five years cause it just makes sense difference. I'm one of them too, and that's okay. I've done pretty well, but everyone, you can always start a little bit earlier and I would just add to that. It's not just compounding your finances, right? It's not just compounding your investments. It's also just compounding your investments in yourself or your investments in what you're working on. Just get started, start early, whatever idea you have, whatever you wanna do just start doing it. Start now, that's the best, advice that I've heard. And that I suppose I could give as well, just get started.

That's probably gonna be your answer to this next question. And that is, do you have any tips or tricks that you would recommend someone that is just getting started today?

Yeah, just do it like, you took the words outta my mouth.

Just do it.

It's so funny

You might get sued by Nike now.

I think it's funny cuz like everyone just, I don't know what it is. I think it's it's never been easier to start a business than today. Like truly, like in the world. There's a lot of things that are tougher I think about the world than they were, let's say in the sixties, seventies, eighties, there's a lot of things that are ways here. On the tougher side, there's more competition, there's more people that are hungry and like in other countries with the wage, aren't as high and they can, oh, undercut you. And there's a lot that's for sure a fact, like globalization's like a big deal, but the same time, no matter where you live no matter what base you were born on, we all have 24 hours in a day. So whether you were born on first or born on third base with a silver spoon in your mouth, like we all have the same 24 hours in the day. And yeah, I would just say just, get started, get crack and don't stress about how things could be or should be, or if it's perfect. If you like something, just start doing it. Like it, I think a lot of people just are just scared. I get it, I've been there. But man it's just, you only live once and if you got a passion in your heart for something you gotta fire in your belly, like what, you gotta, you owe it to yourself to just start working, start getting cracking on what you love doing. Yeah I've done. I've done pretty well. I've also made some mistakes, but that's one thing I've always done is just, If I got an idea, I just go for it. So there it's.

Yeah. Stefan I absolutely love that, man. I had to write that one down. So I know you see me taking notes throughout this whole thing, but what I just wrote down is that, we all have the same 24 hours in the day. So whether or not, you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth or you're born and you have to like work really hard to get to where you wanna get to. The thing is we all have these same 24 hours to utilize and use for that mission for our goal, for what it is that we're trying to accomplish. That is that's huge, man. So I definitely appreciate that perspective. All right. The final question and this is just an opinion question and that is, do you have even if it's something that's helped you as well, do you have a favorite business investing related book or podcast or both?

Oh podcast, I really like, it's called infinite loops by Jim O'Shaughnessy. Are you familiar with that?

I am not. I'm writing it down.

No infinite loops. Yeah. Yeah. Jim's like this New York investment guy. He is a little bit older. He's just got a fresh, style. He asks great questions. He has great guests. I think what I like about his podcast too, is it's a finance podcast, he integrates like other areas of life, right? Like science he's very into like science and bio, health. He integrates like philosophy into his questions into his guests. Like a lot of finance podcasts are very strict. We're gonna, we're gonna talk to this investment manager. We're gonna talk to this fund manager. That's fine. But I, yeah, I think infinite loops is definitely one of my favorite ones. Jim just does such a great job and can't say enough good things about it. Definitely I think truly one of the best podcasts out there.

All right. I wrote that one down. I'm gonna have to go check it out, especially sounds like some topics. I'd definitely be very interested in. All right, Stefan. So that is it for the final round, but I do have one more question for you. And it's probably the most important question of all for the people that have been listening to this episode, they're sitting here saying, man, Stefan's talking about this really awesome stuff about alternative investments, stuff I never even thought about investing in myself personally. And I wanna learn a little bit more about it. So Stefan, where can people find more information about you, your fund and all of that? Do you have a website, social media profiles we can follow, let us have it all.

Easy, alts.co A L T S dot C O. alts.co. So that's everything, that's our blog. That's where you find everything about our fund. That's where you find everything about our company. And if you like what we're putting out there and you looking for work, let us know we're hiring. We're always looking for talented folks writers, analysts, anyone anything you can add, we'd be definitely willing to listen and have a chat. Alts.Co, check us out and reach out at anytime.

All right. Awesome Stefan so I will make sure I have that link in the show notes, make it easier for everybody to find you. They can either copy and paste it or click it and and just make it very easy. So this has been an awesome conversation. Technology is a beautiful thing that I could talk to you from the other side of the world, I'm in the middle of the Pacific, you're in Europe right now. I know you're taking a trip. So this is just really cool. And I know it's getting a little late there, so I really wanna say that I appreciate you having this conversation with me so late at night while you're on vacation, man. Definitely appreciate it.

If you're a CEO, you're never on vacation. You and I both know that. No worries, but it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having this. Awesome.

All right. Absolutely. And Aloha from Hawaii.

Take care, man.