102. Becoming Debt Free ASAP with John Nicholas

Hey, how's it going everybody. Welcome back to the average Joe finances podcast. I'm your host, Mike Cavaggioni and today's guest is John Nicholas. I am super excited to talk to you today. Thanks for coming on the show.

Hey, you're welcome, Mike. Love being here and love what you're doing.

Awesome. Hey, I appreciate that. I really do. And, I appreciate the chat that we had before we push record. I'm you know, this is a pretty exciting interview, especially because of what we're gonna be discussing today. This podcast is all about helping people get outta debt so they can get to that point where they can invest and start living their life. And a lot of times, a lot of my guests are like real estate investors or people that are already at that point where they're doing that. So every time I have the opportunity to talk to somebody, that's gonna bring us back to the basics of, how to beat debt and start. To that place in life where you can get there. It's always exciting for me. So if you could share a little bit more about yourself and your story, how did this all get started for you?

When I was barely 16 years old, I was a knucklehead and, basically a dumb jock and I managed to crash into a house during a Halloween car chase with police. When I was just barely 16 years old, thankfully, nobody got hurt, but it was devastating. Cuz I was thrown in jail and kicked off my high school football team and I let down everybody family, friends, my new girlfriend who was waiting for me at the dance. Our school was throwing to keep us off the streets that night terrible crossroads in life. And I had to look in the mirror. After apologizing to everybody and just trying to figure out what's up and just, I had to dig deep and really look at where I had come from. Basically my history. My dreams and my DNA. Okay. And I had to pull it together because I was not a good student. I was marginal athletically here. I was off, off my team. And the only aspiration I had was maybe to play college football or something like that. That was out there. And maybe if I dug deeper, there was a little tiny dream to be a pro athlete. But anyway, bottom line was, I managed to dig up. Just from the trenches and changed my mind and catch a vision for going forward. And within a year, managed to turn things around and become team captain president of, key club campus leader, LA times all star and was, had turned the academics around so much that I was being recruited by Harvard and brown university. So it was a major turnaround and it showed me that amazing things are possible. Okay. You can be a dumb jock who just makes a decision to. Look at things differently to do things differently. And that, that worked out athletically trained, like never before hit, like never before all those things. And so all things are possible. And I didn't even know. Much at the time, but I do know that amazing things can happen when we change our mindset and change our direction so that I wanna encourage everybody. I don't care where you are or who you are or what your situation we gotcha. You. You can do this.

You went really, a lot deeper there to talk about, something that you did when you were 16 year old, 16 years old, probably one of the biggest mistakes you've ever made. And that's huge. Like I'm sitting here taking down notes. And I'm like, man, at 16, he was arrested, crashed a, crashed his car while, into a house while he was being chased by the police on Halloween night. And he was supposed to be at a dance that night that was supposed to prevent all this from happening oh man, like that's pretty rough stuff, Look at where you are now, look at what, the lessons that you've learned from that. And you made that mindset shift, right? You realize that, you put yourself in a situation where you hurt other people besides yourself, and other people were affected by your actions. And you said, man, something's gotta change. So something just switched for. And you change that mindset. And then look at what happened after that. You started crushing it academically, getting recruited by Harvard and, Yale and just other Ivy league schools. That's amazing. So I just wanna say, I just wanted to point that out because I think that's super cool. To fast forward to where you're at today, right? So you yourself went through a lot of changes in your life, right? To the point where. You've been jobless. You had racked up a whole bunch of debt and you found yourself clawing and climbing out of this pit that was dug. So what is it that, that you have done on your own personal journey to beating debt and financial freedom?

After, partnering with a friend, a hometown friend and building up an Emmy award-winning sports media company, And we had just sold it to a public firm right before 9/11. And they had very high hopes and expectations and our markets froze after 9/11. And I was, in New York city having meetings a month or so later that were dismal. Because, sponsors and advertisers were just not making decisions. And we were struggling and I stood one night looking at 9/11 as all night, 24/7 work crews were clearing the debris. And I was looking at that, just thinking about all the people who had perished there, wondering if my days were done, this was not looking good. Business wise and sure enough, it didn't take long before our parent company cut costs dramatically and starting with me. So I was jobless. I was a co-founder of a company that was really cool. And I had no money coming in. I already had some debt because as an entrepreneur, you tend to lug some of that around. And it took me months to work through an executive search situation. And anyway, a bunch of stuff that ended up being. So I was trying to keep my family afloat with no income. So I understand how people feel when they lose a job or their business goes bust or whatever. And so I tried several things. I tried some consolidation. I tried, a management plan. I looked at all kinds of, I, I didn't know that much, but I did at least try to, a few things, but I couldn't do anything cuz I had no money coming in. You can't do a lot. In that scenario. So I was even looking at bankruptcy, doing it myself, something it's a lot harder to do today. And things like that. At a certain point, I had to just bite the bullet. I had to go through a simple chapter, seven bankruptcy and basically start over. It's one of seven options that exist, or one, one of seven approaches that I discuss with people, about, how to deal with your debt. But in any case, I then was able by the grace of God to be invited by a friend to Dallas, move from LA to Dallas to help him build up his real estate company. And we took it from a very small firm to number one sales team in Texas, number two in the whole us and that's per wall street journal rankings. So in other words, we killed it. He had some genius that I recognized. And I came in with some different, additions and we built it up and had some amazing new kinds of models, with investors, with, corporate relocation, with, regular folks, with builders, all kinds of things that four years later, the re the great recession, wiped it all out. And so there again, there was a reboot, so I've been through some tough stuff, but I've learned. Subsequently how to recover and prepare and be situated. And thankfully, things have gone well since then in both real estate and like remodeling businesses, things like that.

Yeah. So speaking of remodeling, we were talking a little bit before, I know you're doing some, remodeling of your house right now, which is why you're like in a different location. So yeah, it's in the attic, it's like a Testament to what we're discussing right now, with having to remodel your life and how having to make these mindset shifts. One of the things that I wanted to ask you about is, why exactly should we talk about debt?

Because most Americans are dealing with more than ever before. We keep hitting, the us average household debt loads keep hitting all time, record highs. Most Americans have it. It's real, there's different explanations. There's seven different ways. Mo most people get into significant debt. We could maybe talk about that if we have time. It's just real, it's the real thing. And, for many people, not all, but most, and so we need to address it, especially if there's a simple, yet powerful way to approach it. And I think, again, just, by the grace of God, I think, we put together something that simplifies it and makes it just a stone cold, win for anybody who wants to check it.

Yeah. So I'd like to dive a little bit deeper into that. So you said there was like seven, seven major reasons why, people get stuck and they get caught up into debt. And, even for your situation where you pretty much had to hit the reset button twice, once where you had to file for make bankruptcy, and then you came out to Texas and got involved with your friend and your partner and you you turned it into a huge, real estate company, that did really well. And then the great recession happened and you pretty much had to hit the reset button again. So having to go through this experience, not once but twice. What was it that when you realized what these seven different ways of, of accruing debt or what it was that you wanted to talk about

Mike I'm like most people, we just react to what's in front of us and we're just trying to, juggle things and make our way. And so I don't wanna romanticize my situation, but I'll tell you the truth where I really started thinking about these things, like all the different kinds of, causes and the different effects, not just financially, but emotionally, mentally, relationships even spiritually that's after I worked in, after doing real estate for 15 years and stuff, I said, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do. I wanna work with people in distress. And I had an opportunity to work in the debt relief field and I soon hated it. And Mike, the reason was I was talking to all these people from every situation, every background, every place and hearing where they were at many of them in tears, most of them embarrassed, just feeling shame, feeling, just, so much failures and it's You know what this industry is messed up. They're not giving people what they need. They're not, they're trying to slam 'em into programs depending on what they're selling and it's just not working. Where do people get help? And so I left that field, but later when the recession, the COVID pandemic hit a couple years ago, I was on a retreat putting my mind to some other things. And I got hit with this whole deal about there's a simple way to help people give them what they need in terms of simple tools. Mindset and direction to deal with debt. And so that's what, debt free ASAP the book, I've since done a free, fast track video course. It's just, I want to help people avoid the mistakes, the scams and the cookie cutter programs that they'll find out there. If they're shopping.

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. And speaking of those different, those different programs and things like that, how would somebody avoid some of these things, and avoid some of these common mistakes that you've seen and experienced over the years. Cause you even said, when working in that industry, you saw what people were coming in, the problems that they were having, and it was almost predatory, right? When you think about. How, people would take advantage of those folks that were really suffering and having such a hard time. So what are ways that people can avoid getting trapped like that?

We've tried to break it down as simply as this three, three things. Number one, assess your situation, meaning your debt load, your balances, your minimum, monthlys your percentage rates of interest on everything you. Put it down, put it in front of you. I have free forms. I offer people. So they are already set up. They can just fill in the blanks. The bottom line is most people. Mike, you wouldn't believe it. Most people in distress, they're not clear on where they stand. They may think they have 10,000 and they actually end up having 28,000 of debt. They may think they have 50,000 and they have over a hundred thousand. I'm telling you the truth. Every chapter starts with a conversation with somebody that I've worked with. And oftentimes they, they just are overwhelmed. You know how it is when sometimes you just envelopes in the drawer and hope they go away, or you just have a hard time getting your arms around things, or you're dealing with grandma, or your kids in trouble, or you're going through a separation or something. A lot of stuff happens in life. Gotta pull it together. Take a look and see where you are at and not just your finances, but like your life. Do you have major decision points, stress points or, considerations that go beyond that affect everything. It's time to look and assess your situation. Step number one, assessment. Step number two is very similar and that is you gotta know your options rather than just call one of these companies. And I'm telling you, if somebody's talking to you on a phone and they've advertised or promoted in any way, shape or form, meaning they've spent serious money to get you. They don't really care. They want you in their program. The person on the phone they're paid to get you in.

Yeah. You're a paid lead at that point. And their whole point is to try to convert you as a lead into a client.

That's their one and only job. And now whether that program fits your best interest or not is totally up in the air and they're not gonna sit there and consult you. I got in trouble constantly, cuz I was walking people through, through their situation, trying to look at what kind of, solutions may be there, not just what I was selling. And you get in trouble doing that by the way. That's okay. I'm a big boy, so I could deal with it, but it's real, so everybody's out to, jam you into whatever they're selling. I'm not selling anything. I'm just selling, understanding. Basically the seven solutions, I have a free cheat sheet. We, we give away. So gives you some simple pros and cons for each thing. And I'm talking about ranging from old school. Pay it down target, certain accounts to get 'em paid off and then move to the next one. It's called different things. I call it old school payoff plan. Okay. Next one. You're thinking consolidation maybe. There's three different kinds of consolidation. What are they, how do they work? Simple pros and cons. Good. Let's talk about hardship programs. A lot of people don't even know they exist. But if they're behind on their payments, chances are we can get 'em talking or they can just talk with somebody with a hardship program. That's gonna reduce the interest, cut the payment down, probably close the account. If it's not already closed, cuz of missing some payments, but help people cuz the, even the creditors have realized they'd rather help you survive than see you die financially and take a. So there's hardship programs. There's getting family assistance. There's settlements, there's, different forms of bankruptcy and sometimes doing nothing is the strategic play. And we talk about even that we call it the status quo, but you have a range of options might as well understand them so you can pick the best one for your situation.

I think that's, the key thing that you're putting out here is that, there are several options and it's not like a one size fits all, every Band-Aid's the same size for every cut. So you have to find the right one to treat your wound the right way. So I like to, I always tie things into whatever, analogies or whatever, but it's true though, right? Because it's not, there is no one size fits all. Sure. You could do like some type of debt, consolidation loan or something like that, but that's an option, but there's other options out there, like what you're talking about with the relief from the credit companies. It's about the person on the other side, the person that's dealing with this understanding that they do have different options, different ways to just get past this or beat this. And now just talking about your approach to this and how, it seems like you, you are very personal when you're dealing with, whoever you're dealing with as a client, that you have this personal touch to it. You, it feels you genuinely care, when you're talking with somebody, you're working with somebody trying to figure out what it is, that's gonna work for them. How is the approach, the way that you go to attack debt, how is that different from some of the common ones we see, like Dave Ramsey and Susie Orman talking about debt and everything. So what are some, what are some of the things that you do? That's different than them.

That's a great question, Mike. And I'm asked periodically, especially about Dave Ramsey. I wrote an article recently called the day Dave Ramsey was all wrong about debt. And how to know good debt from bad and, a woman called in and said, Hey, I make about 70,000. I finally paid off my debt. I wanna buy a house. I'm excited. But I have a car and I owe like 27,000. And I'm a little upside down on that. Should I worry? And immediately, Dave's sidekick jumps in and goes, oh no, you gotta pay. You gotta pay that off before you, you, you go to after the house. and, Dave's in the background going , and so she's going, huh? And I'm sitting there, I , this is a classic question that leads to a fuller discussion. Of course now they have commercial breaks and everything they've gotta juggle and all that. but they didn't sound her out. They didn't find out what her situation really is. Why is she interested in the house? Why now? Where, how much, does she have, is she helping mom out? Is she going in on it with a friend? A partner, husband? What's the situation? They didn't ask any of those questions. They just had a dogmatic mindset that said pay off car before you buy a house. And I'm sitting there. And in my article, I say, Hey, look, let's look at this. They made some mistakes. Number one, they never even said, Hey way to go paying off your debt. That's a big achievement. We need to remind everybody that's, that's an important thing. As for the car. Being slightly negative in a car, usually corrects itself over time. As you pay down the note. And the valuation of the car stabilizes after some early depreciation, I don't wanna talk over anybody's head here, but the bottom line is it's no big deal. It usually corrects itself. So it's not anything that's gonna cause your home, mortgage lender, or even you to really worry. Plus most vehicles are low interest. They're secured. They're not like a credit card they're secured by the asset. And most people. A vehicle is a line item in their monthly overhead. It's not really like a major debt you could, she could get rid of the car if she wanted to. Anyway, there's different things there. My point is. You don't stop somebody from buying a home when interest rates were almost zero, this was before, I just stumbled across this recording that I heard. And it was right. It was before all this, pandemic hit and everything where before all the buying demand, spiked and prices on home spiked and everything. So I basically explained that, This woman could have bought a home with low interest before prices spiked. And instead, she was told to do something that has her on the sidelines, toiling away to pay off a car that probably now is worth 10,000 over what she owes because of what's happened in the marketplace. And she has no home. And it's you gotta get into the fabric of somebody's life. To understand what's important. Why, and not be closed minded or dogmatic about your opinions, because there is some debt is better than others. High interest, low value, credit cards, bad debt. Get rid of it. Let's get rid of it. Hey, a home that's at three, 3% interest. That's accruing asset value equity, and over time tax advantages, et cetera, I'm not gonna talk anybody out of that. I think it's ridiculous. That's just real life, and so many people who have SCRI subscribed to, Ramsey or anyone else's barbers or they'd usually just whisper out of the side of their mouth. I don't go along with that other stuff. I, I like some of his stuff, but I don't believe in half of that other stuff. So it was like, come on, let's be

real. Yeah. no, absolutely. That's a great point. As a matter of fact, in my own journey to beating debt, I was, I started off as a big Dave Ramsey fan, for his seven baby steps. And for me it was steps one through three, after that I was done. After that I said, okay, it's time to look at something else. Cuz I was like, I don't see myself, paying off my home like super early as something that would be advantageous when I have such a low interest rate. Right now I'm sitting at two and a quarter percent interest rate on my home. Which is insane. And my home has appreciated 41% over the last three and a half years, but, Mostly due to the pandemic. Normally it's about 5% a year out here in Hawaii. I would've missed out on all of that. If I would've came out here to Hawaii and decided to rent instead, because I'm following someone else's advice because my car wasn't paid off or whatever. And each person has a different situation. And that's, I think that's huge when you're talking about how. She called in and no questions were asked. It was just like, oh, Nope. You got, all they saw was the number. Oh, $27,000 in, in, in a vehicle loan. That's gotta go before you even think about doing a house. And then, if they would've went further, he probably would've said, make sure you save up enough cash to buy the house cash which is insane. But yeah, one of the things I wrote down as you were talking about that, cause I, I like to take notes while we're going. I wrote down. It's important to celebrate your wins, right? Like you said, nobody said anything to her about, Hey, congratulations on paying off that consumer debt, getting those credit cards paid off, those loans paid off. That's huge, and I think, it helps somebody with their mindset and it puts more positivity on it that the actions that they're taking. Is working and it helps them to continue down that path. So celebrating those wins, I think is a hundred percent important, is so I do financial coaching as well. And some of the people I work with, I tell them like, Hey, when you pay off this credit card, go out and have a nice dinner, go celebrate, go do something because it helps you as you go through because. What a lot of people don't talk about is the emotion that's tied to this, the emotion that's tied to the debt, the emotion that's tied to your money. As much as people wanna say, oh, I'm not emotionally tied to my money. I'm not materialistic. You are like every time you spend money, con subconsciously, whether it's consciously or subconsciously, you're feeling that right in the back of your head. It's super important that you do that you celebrate these wins and that I think that was one of the biggest things that I took away from that.

You and I see eye to eye, believe me, cuz I finished this book talking about, coaches like yourself, myself, but the value of coaches, I thought the seven virtues of co of a coach, I won't go into 'em but you know them intrinsically the point is if you celebrate every step of the way. You're just getting the juice, right? You're getting a whole momentum that feeds on itself because most people momentum are stuck. They're just stuck and they're in the fog of war of just being overwhelmed. And that's why assessing your situation breaks you out of that, you get clarity, you get direction, you get inspiration. Then you look at your options, you get clarity, you can be decisive. And then you, the third step that we share. Create a plan with whatever support you need to succeed. And that's where coaches and fellowship come in of, fellow travelers. But Hey, you gotta know, in a marathon you hit the wall and a smart, smart runner or a good coach prepare and have your mindset to, to get, to keep your eyes on the prize and, and celebrate every step of the way.

Yeah, absolutely. Cause Hey, if you're doing this, you're on this journey and the journey, the entire time is one big party. You'll never wanna stop. That's right. That's right. That's

awesome. Debt free forever. What we call the support part of, just carrying on.

Yeah, no, I love it. I love it. Absolutely. Now you had mentioned earlier that there was like three keys, right? Yes. There's these three debt recovery keys that you think everyone should know as widely as one plus two equals three . Now, was that what you were talking about before with the assess, the situation, know your options or create a plan or is this something, different?

That's how simple it is. Assess your situation, review your options and create a plan with whatever support you need to succeed or just create a plan.

Awesome. I just wanna make sure I got to that because , that was like, when you mentioned it earlier and figured that's what it was, but I wanted to make sure that we hit that piece because I know that was like one of the key things that I wanted to discuss with you today, right? Yes. And I think that's huge. And I wanna, Point that out, how, assessing your situation, knowing what your options are and then creating that plan. One of the things that I said, too, it's to make it as known as widely as one, plus two equals three. And that's like a simple math problem, but that's how simple this is right here too. You're talking about the three debt recovery keys. That's how simple it is. One plus two equals three, right? Yes. If you can follow that simple formula, that simple mathematical equation. You can really get yourself set up to, to be in a really good spot in the future. And there's a lot of people that listen to my show right now that are probably well past this stage. Which is fine, but there's also people that are listening that are just now getting started on their journey to getting out of debt so they can start building their wealth and control their future. That's actually, my tagline on my website and the podcast too. It's beat your debt, build your wealth and control your future. Nice. And, It's just that simple, you just got, you have to be able to just assess, create the plan and then, and then, and move on. Of course know your options, I think one of the things is that a lot of people don't know what some of these options are. And, I really appreciate the fact that we touched on that because. A lot of people that I've worked with in the past, they feel like the only way to get out of their debt is to create like another smaller debt bubble by consolidating everything into this one, massive loan that encompasses everything, which for some people that might be the thing that works. It helps 'em with the discipline because they're only making one payment now. Multiple small things, but at the same time for someone else, That might not work because now they realize they have this huge looming payment that they have to pay every month. And it's just not gonna work for them. They like the little bite size ones better and the snowball method might be better for them. And that's what I did myself, was the snowball method and the envelope system. And now I do sinking funds. I think that's super huge that people have these different options. And that's why I wanted to touch on that, near the end here. But John, there's something that I just added to my podcast, not too long. It's, I'm calling it the final round. And, it's where I have four questions that I'd like to ask you. They're quick hitting, but they're like to the point and, I think they add massive value to both myself, asking you these questions and to our listeners. So if you're ready to do that, I'd like to go into our final round.

Final round.

Okay. Awesome. All right. So first question, this is a big one. Ready? What's the biggest mistake you've ever made?

Financially. I would say not investing in Tesla. When I had my son do a research project before they went public and, was trying to teach him how to spot a winner. And, I didn't make that move.

Wow. So you were looking at it before it went public.

Yes.

I kick myself in the butt all the time when I look at, back in when I first moved to Hawaii, right after we bought our house, I was looking at buying a Tesla. I wanted to buy a Tesla so bad, and I was at the dealership and I'm talking to the guy there. And, he was telling me, he's oh yeah. He's every time we sell a car, we get some Tesla shares and stuff too, that go along with our commission. I was like, oh, that's really cool. And I was like, I was thinking about buying some Tesla, but I just feel like it's a little overpriced right now. And I think at the time in 2018, it was like 2 76 a share, this is pre split. Okay. And I'm like, yeah, I think it's too, overpriced. And he's yeah, I think it's a little overpriced too. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, man, if I would've only known what was gonna happen over the next two years. Woo.

We have that in common. Okay. yeah, Yeah.

We do have that in common. However, I like to not look at that as a, I wish I coulda should or woulda, cuz a lot of times that can really weigh you down,

yeah. Not worried about it,

but that's that, that's super cool though that, you were showing him that and he was writing a paper on it, just had to pick out a good winner. And I, you. I don't think we really talked about this earlier in the show, but I wanna point out how important that is, that you are teaching your children that right. And how important it is that they understand financial literacy and how to do this for themselves. Because as a parent, I, I know at least for me as a parent, my whole thing is I wanna build a situation that's better for my children than what I had. And I think that's, really awesome.

Okay. Can I interject on that? Cause absolutely. I just wanted to give you a huge amen to that and mention that, like you said, a lot of your listeners are already doing okay. And they're not like, U under the gun debt wise, , this book is super fun to read. It's easy, it's fast. And you can watch the free video, course as well as an option, but it's not just for you. It's. How you can help other people. Most of us have family members or friends or other people we come across who need help and they have no clue and you can just download deposit or you can send them to the free video if you want. But more importantly, you can share because you now have this grid, this outline, you can share it and you can empower and encourage anyone. Pass it on.

That's huge. Always, always pass it on. And pay it forward. You gotta pay it forward, right? Yes. Okay. Awesome. I love that. So let's move on to, to question two. Yes. And I'm gonna love this question for you because, just the experiences you've had and just what we've already discussed. I'm excited for this one. So what is something that you've learned that you wish you knew when you first started your journey?

Boy, so many things. You know what, when I came out of football, I played several years of pro ball got paid pretty well, not great back then. It was before big money, but, I had the means. To make some moves and I didn't, instead, I rolled the dice. I brought in investors. I, I went the entrepreneurial route and I wish I had understood more about not only real estate, which later of course got into, but, the value of taking funds early. And seeing them grow early, I had a mindset that was just much more, Hey, I'm gonna build big things and I'm not gonna worry about what I'm doing like month to month in terms of investing in this or that. So I would say financially speaking, that's probably the thing I wish I had understood those dynamics a little bit more at the beginning.

That's awesome. Okay. This actually, it works perfectly cause that's gonna tie into the next question. So do you have any tips or tricks that you would recommend to someone that is just getting started today?

That Dave Ramsey article? I mentioned, I, one of the things I talk about there is the slogan I've created. for myself is. Everything depends on everything. Okay. When somebody asks a question, Hey, should I buy this? Or should I do that? The answer usually is it depends. Everything depends on everything. And so you can't just grab something outta the air and say, yeah, this is something I need to do it. It depends on. All the elements of where you're at, what you care about, what your goals are, this, that, and the other thing. And then, evaluating, if it's not debt recovery options, it's investment options. You gotta look at your options, review those, and then create a plan one plus two equals three, your SI your situation, plus your option. Best option equals your best plan. Follow it, step by step. And so that's all I got. It's everything depends on everything. Don't do things just cuz you're supposed to, or just cuz that expert says, do it, unpack your situation and your opportunity. And I think I went way off track on that Mike, so sorry.

No. That's perfect. Some sometimes, depending on what your situation is and what you're trying to do, you just, you gotta trust your. You gotta trust your own intuition and trust yourself. And I think that's, where you were going with that because a lot of people will they'll go with, Hey, Dave Ramsey said this, or I heard this, from John or Mike on the podcast. And I feel this is the route I should go. Not everything you hear is what you should do, that again, when you talked about those three steps and that, that first one, assessed the situation. Right then the next thing where you talk about know your options, That's the most important part is assessing the situation and then knowing what your options are. And then of course you gotta execute, right? . But if you're not, if you're not doing that, you're not assessing the situation. You're not knowing what options you have ahead of you. And you're just gonna listen to something because you heard somebody say it on the radio or TV or on a podcast or a YouTube video or whatever. Then you're probably not gonna put yourself in a per in a very good situation because you're not following your own goal, your own ideas of what's gonna work for you personally. I absolutely love that answer, okay. Let's move on to the final question here. The fourth question, and that is, do you have a favorite business investing or real estate related book or podcast or both.

I've always enjoyed the rich dad, poor dad. I think that's, one of my favorites, I think the four quadrants of, what's the book that's, it's not good to great. It's, seven habits of a highly effective person. I think because you, or maybe it is good to great where you have the four grids of, something that's, an urgent matter or an important matter, not important, not timely, whatever, and just having an understanding of what's really important and urgent that means high priority if something's important, but it's not urgent. I shouldn't be, wasting time during prime time in my day on that, it's important. Yes. But it's not in front of me now. And so I'm gonna put it off to the side. I'd say those. Have stuck with me.

Yeah. Fantastic. And the first one you mentioned too, rich dad, poor dad is one of those books that's just foundational, right? For somebody that's just starting their journey. It's great to read because it helps build that foundation. So you know what to do after you beat your debt, but it helps you understand how your debt really is a liability, at least the bad debt, like those credit cards and things like that. And then you learn how to turn other debt into, an asset building machine. And that's one of the things that, that I loved about that book. So that's fantastic. Now I do have one more question for you. I know that was like the final four, but this is separate from that. And this is probably the most important question of all. Because as folks are sitting here listening to this show, listening to this episode, they're like, Hey, Mike and John are talking about some really awesome stuff. We really like. What John's talking about with his program, and how he has these three debt recovery keys that everybody should know. And we wanna know more about him, his program and what he's doing and about your book too. So if you could share with us, where people could find more information about you, do you have a website you can share social media, where can we find your book? That's the burning question that people want to know.

Where most people go for books is amazon.com. I'm grateful that we were an Amazon number one new release book. And, we've been top of the charts, now for about a year and very thankful for that. And the reviews have been, really cool, where they, people are saying, Hey, you know what? Finally, somebody is looking at my situation, not just forcing their ideas, on me. They're trying to help me. Look at my situation in a different way. It, so it's on Amazon. It's a Kindle ebook. It's also a paperback. It doesn't cost much, so brother or sister, grab it and I think you're gonna enjoy it and, be benefit from it. The other thing I want to say, Mike, is I just loaded a free online 38 minute fast track video course and includes my story as we build each person's recovery story of their own. And, it's on it's at freedebtvideo.com. Just go to freedebtvideo.com. It introduces you to my own website as well, but it gives you the free forms. I talked. The free assessment forms, you can get PDFs to print out, or you can do Excel on your computer. If you like. Also the seven debt solutions that you should know, that's a cheat sheet, free comes with it, and then just watch the video and it gives you everything you need to succeed. It really does. And, if you wanna get some personal assistance, I offer my consultation and support in, in an incredible. Approach for less than a hundred bucks, that's people say I'm crazy, but you know what that's where it is right now. I want to help as many people as possible.

That's awesome. And being able to do that at a, at a. Point where you're keeping the price point very low, especially for, people that are coming to you are probably in a situation where they really can't afford much more than a hundred dollars and things like that. People think I'm crazy too, because, I do my coaching at a very low price compared to other coaches. And I do it for that reason. I don't need to like make a ton of money off of coaching. I do it cause I genuinely wanna help other people. And what I really love about the conversation that we had and talking about what you do and even when you just GI give out these free resources and you are you're coaching at such a low price and consultations. I know. That you genuinely care about the clients that you take on as well. And I just think that's phenomenal. So I am super humbled, by your presence with me today, having this conversation coming on my show. I really do appreciate that and I wanna point that out. So I wanna make sure that, for everybody that's listening, we're gonna have. All of this information in the show notes to make it easy for you to find John, to find his websites, to find his book. We'll make sure it's all there. So if you're driving, don't sit here and try to type in a website or whatever. just go back into the episode later and copy it outta the show notes. And while you're doing that, go ahead and leave us a review. That'd be great. Hey, John, again, thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation with me today, especially on a Saturday. This was awesome. It was a real treat.

My, my sentiments. Exactly. Thank you so much, Mike. It's been a blast being with you and, God bless you and all your listeners.

All right. Thanks, John.